Today the Minnesota Vikings, not to be outdone by...themselves, set the new gold standard in stupid trades. The Vikings got a second Darwin award to proudly display in the halls of Winter Park where, oddly enough, no Lombardi Trophies reside.
Randy Moss won’t be finishing his career as a Viking. I’m sure everyone has heard by now he will be traded to Oakland on March 2nd, the start of the NFL’s fiscal year. Exacerbating the stomach punch is the fact that the Vikings got almost nothing in return: The #7 pick in the draft, Napolean Harris, and a late round pick. Don’t worry, I never heard of Harris either.
Let’s break down the facts and see what any group of people not shrouded in idiocy and failure would come up with.
The Vikings need a better defense to complement their offense.
Moss wanted to stay.
Despite a widely used out of context quote Daunte “hates” the trade and is very sad he and Randy can’t finish what they started.
The Vikings are 30 million under the cap.
The Vikings offense revolves around Randy Moss. As gaudy as his numbers are Randy has a major impact on the game without even catching a pass.
The Vikings are a revenue strapped team, Moss put butts in the seats and purple on peoples’ backs.
Napolean Harris has been considered a bust in Oakland and is only a minor upgrade over current Viking MLB Henderson. Harris started only 9 games last year after struggling in Oaklands 3-4 scheme. He also apparently has an attitude problem.
The Vikings will have to pay the #7 pick almost as much as Randy makes before the player even sees one down of NFL football.
So to sum things up Oakland drafted a hall of famer with the #7 pick, since Harris was basically expendable to them.
The Vikings on the other hand went from a few defensive players away to the same number of defensive players and an all world wide receiver away.
There are a couple things that give me hope.
#1 The trade can’t be put in writing until March, 2nd
#2 Something about Oakland’s situation doesn’t add up. The person who leaked the deal (Moss’s agent) really would have no idea what the trade involved. The Raiders are already over the cap. Then they signed Jerry Porter (5 years 30 mil), then franchised Woodson (10 mil), then get Moss (7 mil). All totaled it puts them at least 20 million over. Those numbers don’t seem to add up, so maybe the deal is more than people are saying. Also it was stressed in multiple places that Atlanta and Baltimore, two teams with well documented needs for a WR “couldn’t come close” to matching what the Raiders did.
My favorite team had the best player of this era and we gave him away for a $1.27 and a half eaten sandwich. When the Vikings signed him to what was a blockbuster deal for its time I remember making the comment that we get to have the most exciting player in the league on our side until I’m almost 30. Looks like I was wrong.
It’s awfully hard to root for teams when you end up rooting for laundry. I had been used to seeing a new quarterback every year for the longest time, I was ecstatic when Daunte was signed long term, I thought I would get to see him and Randy hooking up for a very long time. Looks like I was wrong.
It makes me sad though, Randy being gone. I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged. Their feathers are just too bright. And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice. But still, the the place you live in is that much more drab and empty now they are gone. I guess I just miss my wide receiver.
I have a new second favorite team, and I hope Randy gets his ring now that he’s with a team committed to winning.
This will not be one of those hindsight is 20/20 deals should the Vikings win a Super Bowl in the not to distant future without Moss. The Vikings absorb all the risk in this deal. BEST CASE SENEREO they parlay that #7 pick into a player that is 70% adequate to hold Randy’s jock.
Trades are for teams that have a surplus of good players at a position (like the Vikings RB situation) and they have their backs against the salary cap. Not teams that can have their cake and eat it too with umpteen million dollars under the salary cap.
I wonder how Plexico Burress looks in purple?
Diatribe of a Mad Sports Fan
02/23/2005
Gone.
Unreplaceable.
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 02/23/2005 @ 11:46:44 PM |
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| Alex and I did this in about half an hour, so forgive any incoherentness or my usual "need of Mavis Beacon". | ||
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| Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 02/24/2005 @ 07:31:29 AM |
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| scenario | ||
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| Micah - You treat a hot girl like dirt, and she'll sitck to you like mud 02/24/2005 @ 09:50:12 AM |
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| Randy Moss Raiders jerseys are going to rule | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 02/24/2005 @ 01:47:28 PM |
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There was actually an article somewhere on that Micah. Despite their suckiness Raiders apparel is top 5 in sales every year. Moss's jersey in terms of per player is right up there. Combining the two should make it hands down the best selling jersey next year. |
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| Jon - many posts 02/24/2005 @ 03:12:53 PM |
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Rumor has it that when Denny Green heard about the trade he said, "Well, it looks like Jimmy Kleinsasser's just going to have to step up." And when I say, "rumor has it," I mean that I made it up. |
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| Scott - 2883 Posts 02/24/2005 @ 04:09:26 PM |
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| But, if the vikings receiving Corps is indeed better without moss than the Packers Receiving Corps, you guys should be completely fine, right? | ||
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| Josh - 8 Posts 02/24/2005 @ 04:15:58 PM |
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I think all the Vikings fans out there need to settle down. The viks aren't gonna just throw away Randy Moss like a certain somebody threw away chemical waste from his/her treating plant; no, they are building a better team here and have a few more moves in mind before all is said and done. Heres my prediction... They now realize that may need to get a big reciever bc moss was pretty good. Ok, no problem, they'll draft him. Only problem is that the 7th pick may be a bit late to pick up a Williams/Edwards. No big deal, the Viks trade trade Dante and their 7th pick to Miami for Miami's 2nd pick and Reggie Howard, one of Miami's nickel defenders. Beautiful!! Now they have an big untested reciever and two new "excellent" defenders to go along with the rest of the old viks (minus dante and randy). Ahhh, all is well in Vikingland again. |
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| Jeremy - Super Chocolate Bear 02/24/2005 @ 08:52:04 PM |
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First of all I was being somewhat facetious about the better than Packers without Moss. However, the fact that it was even a statistical argument is pretty sad. Also I'm very pissed off that I missed out on the fairly obvious "Jimmy Kleinsasser will have to step up" line. |
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| Scott - 2883 Posts 02/28/2005 @ 02:11:15 PM |
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| Ok, I missed it the first time, But Jeremy, excellent use of the Shawshank Redemption reference. It almost brings a tear to my eye, until I remember who indeed you are talking about. But cheers anyway. | ||
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| Sarah 02/28/2005 @ 09:12:40 PM |
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| He uses that quote at any semi appropriate time. Kudos to Freeman for finally getting an Oscar. A bit overdue though | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/01/2005 @ 06:17:02 PM |
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| Whoops | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/01/2005 @ 06:24:15 PM |
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| Should all be ok now. | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/03/2005 @ 06:37:25 PM |
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Well Wahle and Rivera are officially gone. Some sources think this is the kind of news Favre is waiting for. How ape-shit-nuts will the lions and Bears go after we lose Moss and you lose half the offense. |
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| Scott - 2883 Posts 03/03/2005 @ 09:30:54 PM |
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| wahle and rivera hurt a lot. that's probably 2 of the better olinemen in the league, and now the packers have to find a way to replace them. I was thinking the same thing about the news Favre was waiting for. I really hope things work out. | ||
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| icbeast - I will possess your heart 03/04/2005 @ 12:58:19 AM |
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Hasn't everyone pretty much known for a while that those guys were gone? It's not like the Packers didn't want to keep them, they just have no salary cap room. Which I should look into sometime, because I don't know who they are wasting it all on. I still don't think the Lions have really put the pieces together, but if the Bears get a QB they could real good. And the Packers losing those 2 and the Vikings losing Moss doesn't automatically mean those teams are going to drop off. Teams lose good players all the time, that just means you bring in someone else or a backup becomes a starter. Since the Packers have no cap room though they'll need a good draft, both for some defense and maybe some oline help. Favre will play this year. The longer he waits the closer the season gets and he's still got too much of a competitive drive to walk away. I don't know what the schedule is like, but I'm ready to guarentee that the AFC West goes undeafted against the NFC West. Chargers, Broncos, Chiefs, and a powered up Raiders offense. Quite the division. How do the Timberwolves not win more? KG ranks in the top 20 in pretty much every statistical category. Points, FG%, Assists, Steals, Rebounds (1st), Blocks maybe like top 30, and Minutes. He also has the most double-dubs, yet their under .500. Let the Madness begin! Badgers need to win a few in the conference tourney to boost their seed up a few notches. I guess they probably should win Saturday first. However, there's no way Illinois doesn't run the table all the way to a national championship. |
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| icbeast - Talk to me Goose 03/04/2005 @ 01:27:49 PM |
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| Does anyone else think that Skip Bayless is the worst sportswriter currently employed by ESPN? | ||
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| Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 03/04/2005 @ 03:06:00 PM |
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Possibly, but he's right about Moss. The Joke Is On The Vikings |
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| Matt - 1486 Posts 03/04/2005 @ 03:07:45 PM |
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| And by "right about Moss", I mean right about the whole Moss trade situation. | ||
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| icbeast - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 03/04/2005 @ 07:06:12 PM |
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| I agree that he is right about Moss, but he totally ripped on Garnett. "Yet Garnett, last year's MVP, also is pro basketball's most overhyped and overpaid player." How is it possible to be overhyped less than a year after being the MVP, when the NBA headlines have been dominated by Kobe, Shaq and the Heat, the surprise Sonics and Suns, and Lebron? The only reason I knew that Garnett is having just as good a season this year as last is because I check the TWolves box scores regularly. Bayless is too busy dissing on everything in sight to actually have a clue. That's what prompted my comment in the first place. He's always off if his own little world. If anyone has ever watched any Dream Job you know what I mean. The other judges hardly ever agree with him. Plus, his writing style is just harsh. I think I might start a SportsNation petition to have him dethroned. | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/08/2005 @ 07:04:38 PM |
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| Pat Williams...Fred Smoot....pull the trigger on a Darius trade and I like where this bus is headed...since we'll score 7 points a game we'll need the D. | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/10/2005 @ 01:51:58 PM |
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| I'm going on record now to say that my hatred of Darren Sharper knows no jersey color. | ||
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| Jeremy - Corduroy pillows are making headlines 03/10/2005 @ 04:08:38 PM |
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| Favre will play next season. That's a shame. | ||
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| Sarah 03/10/2005 @ 08:04:15 PM |
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| I was at work doing some research online when I went to yahoo. Front page news: Favre will return in 2005. I perked up and was happy all day. I was giddy and felt like crying tears of joy. I had to keep myself in check for the rest of the day. The Packers are always in contention with Favre at the helm. Sharper who? ha, he never lived up to Butler. | ||
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| Scott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue. 03/11/2005 @ 09:04:19 AM |
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I'm personally upset with Darren Sharper. As much as I wanted him to be, he is no LeRoy Butler, who took a pay cut late in his career to finish as a Packer, and so that the Packers could fit him under the cap with room to sign other players. Darren Sharper said he wanted to retire a Packer, but that he deserves not to have to take a pay cut. The Packer defense now has some gaping holes in it that need to be filled. In a way, I'm glad to see Sharper leave, although I did like him. Favre coming back is a good thing. Altough, with some of the recent moves (o line dismantling, and sharper leaving) things could be shaky. Although with one of the best 1-2 receivers tandoms in the league and still one of the better qbs in the league (4th in touchdowns last year), the packers have a chance to make another run at the north title. Plus, the competition in the North is slowly becoming more balanced and less.....um.....competitive. Go Brewers. |
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| Scott - 2883 Posts 03/11/2005 @ 09:05:35 AM |
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| Oh and get this, we're all going to love this. Sharper is going to meet with the Vikings today. | ||
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| icbeast - The fastest way to a man's heart is with Chuck Norris's fist 03/11/2005 @ 01:23:55 PM |
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Sharper has been overrated and was no longer worth his salary, so I'm glad he's gone. He was decent yes, but many of his picks were insignificant (garbage time, thrown right too him, against the worst QBs) and he seems to possess 0% leadership skills. He's one of those guys who goes out does his job mostly and that's about it. He was never going to help take the defense to the next level. So give him the boot and let someone else have that opportunity. What does, "the competition in the North is slowly becoming more balanced and less.....um.....competitive" mean? Wouldn't becoming more balanced imply increased competitiveness? |
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| Jeremy - Super Chocolate Bear 03/11/2005 @ 11:02:52 PM |
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I commented on Darren and the Vikes a couple days ago. He wants to stick it to the Packers and stay in the division. Apparently he's all but told the Vikings he will be a Viking come hell or high water and, unfortunately, the Vikings are interested. They are having a film review sesson as I type and it is all but a done deal. |
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| icbeast - 2098 Posts 03/11/2005 @ 11:08:44 PM |
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| lol | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/12/2005 @ 10:11:39 AM |
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| Here's the thing I don't understand about people talking about players. You very often here as a knock on someone that "they aren't a good leader". However, if EVERY player is expected to be a leader then who is being led? | ||
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| icbeast - Refactor Mercilessly 03/12/2005 @ 11:48:07 AM |
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| Not every player is expected is to be a good leader, but there are certain positions that are usually more likely to be leaders. For instance QBs are probably the most likely on offense, while MLB are probably the most likely on defense, because these are the guys that call the plays. The situation with Sharper was this: Butler was clearly a leader on that defense when he retired, Sharper was an up-and-coming early round draft pick and I think the Packers and a lot of fans expected him to kind of fill in that same role. He didn't and for a couple seasons the defense didn't really have a leader on the field. If those expectations hadn't been placed upon him it probably would never come up. Plus it's not that EVERY player has to be a leader all the time, but it's a plus if they have the ability to step up in critical situations (read 4th and 26). | ||
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| Sarah - 1866 Posts 03/12/2005 @ 01:06:14 PM |
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| Butler said that Sharper had to fill the position of leader on the defense. He was even helping him with it. But, Sharper just cares about himself on the field and that's not what it's about. | ||
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| Jeremy - I hate our freedoms 03/12/2005 @ 01:47:27 PM |
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| Execution and being a good leader are two different things. Basically you're saying he's a bad leader becuase before that play he didn't say "Guys, we do not want to give this up"? | ||
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/12/2005 @ 01:48:38 PM |
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| ps It's a done deal 4 years, he's a Viking | ||
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| icbeast - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 03/12/2005 @ 05:15:27 PM |
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| I don't know if it's so much that he only cares about himself, but that he doesn't "make others around him better". He's not the worst safety ever, he just didn't live up to the oringal expectations when he became the starter and the increased expectations after his first ProBowl year, therefore it's probably for the best that he's no longer a Packer. I don't remember whose fault that play really was, but it was down the middle of the field so I just assume that Sharper should have done something about it. | ||
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| icbeast - 2098 Posts 03/12/2005 @ 05:20:13 PM |
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| He lets it go...off the glass and good!!!!!!! The Badgers were not exactly impressive today, but come March only the final score mattters. I hope I'm not the only one here who has watched at least 2 hours of college hoops a day for the last week. Stupid company holiday party tonight and I can't turn down free food and beer. Arizona and Washington should be a good game though. I guess that's what SC is for. | ||
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| Jeremy - I believe virtually everything I read. 03/12/2005 @ 09:06:35 PM |
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| This is funny and depressing | ||
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| icbeast - I will possess your heart 03/13/2005 @ 01:02:55 AM |
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| Although I still say TO is the best, there are some catches on there that no one else in the game right now could make. Worst trade ever. | ||
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| Jeremy - As Seen On The Internet 03/13/2005 @ 10:11:36 AM |
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| I know...and keep in mind that's not a career highlight reel. All those clips are from the like 7 games he was healthy this season. | ||
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| Scott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue. 03/13/2005 @ 01:14:47 PM |
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I'm not one for actually blaming players, but I give Sharper most of the blame, or at least he missed an assignment, on the OWENS OWENS OWENS play. Owens caught the ball in the endzone, exactly where Sharper was supposed to have stepped up when a player came into that area. Had Sharper stepped up even just about 1 yard further, he would have been in a perfect position to knock the ball away before Owens caught it. Overall, I think Sharper is a good football player, and I think the Packers took a hit in talent now that he has left. The Vikings did get a good football player. And the thing that hurt the most was that I actually liked Darren. He had his faults and his share of bad plays, but overall, I thought he was a good guy. Not really anymore. He's as bad as the rest of them. I agree with some of the consensous stirring around Packer Nation: people wanted him to be LeRoy Butler, but he never could live up to that name. Ok, so maybe with balance in the North the competition will increase, but it's not that the Bears and Lions are getting that much better, it seems that it's because the Packers and Vikings are coming down to their level. |
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| Jeremy - Super Chocolate Bear 03/13/2005 @ 08:58:18 PM |
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The Vikings had the #2 offense last year without Moss for most of it and have upgraded ther d line and now have arguably the best secondary in the league. I wouldn't say we stepped down, it's just going to be different without Moss, and we could have done everything we've done so far and had Moss. The lions have made improvements and the Bears are close to getting Edgerine James. |
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| Jeremy - 5111 Posts 03/13/2005 @ 09:08:10 PM |
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Interesting post by a Packer Fan on the ESPN Board. This must have taken forever to do.... Many a Packer fan (not me) will incorrectly conclude that the queens are dead in the water without Moss. It is easy to make this assumption based off of Moss's history of torching the Pack game in-game out, year in-year out. Viking fans too have fallen prey to the illusion of Moss's invaluableness because we have paid such close attention to Packer games and have seen Moss do his best stuff (remember 98?). Anyway, Ramstein Inc. has done a thorough analysis of the last four years and have concluded, just as Tice has, that their offense shouldn't miss a beat. Clearly Moss's most dominant years were his first three, when he had Carter and defenses didn't bottle him up. He has earned the right to be regarded as the most dominant receiver, based in large part from his exploitations of a weak NFC central...particularly in 1998-2000. However now consider this: 1) In his first 3 seasons, Moss scored 43 TDs and averaged 18.4 yd/catch. He had 30 receptions over 40 yards and 71 over 20 yards. He did this averaging just 75 receptions per year. Remember that in 98 he wasn't the starter all year. During this span the queens went to two NFC championships. In his last 4 (he missed five games) years, he has had 47 TDs and averaged 14.5 yd/catch. He had only 22 receptions over 40 yards and 71 over 20 despite averaging 87 receptions per year. During this span, they went to the playoffs just once. 2) His best individual year statistically (2003) was also a year in which the Vikes LOST more games in which he scored than won. In fact, Moss didn't score in four of the nine games the queens won but scored in six of the seven games they lost. 2003 was the year the Vikings lead the NFL in total offense yet Moss only exceeded 100 yards in 5 of the 16 games he played in. Moss had 31 more receptions than in any of his first 3 seasons but averaged 3 fewer yards/catch. This was the Randy Ratio.....result? Tons of opportunities...good numbers.....didn't help the team win 3) In the past four years, Moss has played in a total of 62 games. The queens were 27-35 during these games, which we know had more to do with their defense than offense. However, during this span, Moss has only had 2 more 100 yard games (22) than he has had less than 60 (20). In other words, he hits 100+ yards every 3rd game and gets less than 60 every 3rd game. Of the 27 wins, he scored TDs in 17 of those games. In their 35 losses, he scored in 18 games. 4) As mentioned, Moss has had a history of putting up big numbers against the Pack. Did you know that he didn't score against Detroit between 12/2001 - 12/2004? In 6 of his last 8 games against the Lions, Moss has been held out of the end zone. The Vikings were 7-1 in those games. 5) Last year, with 1/2 of their starting offensive line (including Kleinsasser) out and without a regular running back during Moss's five game injury, the queens averaged only 3 points less a game than when Moss (and others) were healthy. It was during his time out that the queens had two tough road games (Indy/GB) in a six day period and came up short by a FG. Without Moss they put up 31 & 28 points, proving without a doubt that Culpepper was the catalyst behind their offense. They beat Detroit/Tenn during this span and beat Jacksonville when Moss came back and played decoy for a quarter. 6) 9 of Moss's 13 TDs last year occurred within the opponents 20 yard line. Only twice all year did he score from Viking's territory. I believe the same applied in 2003. Essentially Moss has become a red zone receiver (a very good one), but Marcus Robinson (playing 1/2 the time of Moss) scored 8 TDs and 5 red zone himself; Burleson scored 6 from within the 20 yard line. While Moss missed some games, how many more times was he thrown to within the opponents 20 yard line than Burleson and Robinson combined? No doubt Plaxico Burress would grab double digit TD's in that offense and no doubt Tice wants to employ his TE's in the red zone more. 7) Moss's notorious unwillingness to not take the middle put the passing game at a disadvantage at times. With Moss as the hot read, Culpepper needed to first look sideline then mid-field. I don't doubt that he was handcuffed because of this a few years ago and now that they have opted to use the TE in the passing game (fat Wiggins had 700+ yards) as well as very good receiving backs, the Viking's offense will be much less inclined to stahl. Moss's injury and Culpepper's maturation during the injury are evidence of this. Perhaps most telling to me is that last year (as in years before) Moss scored only four times when the Vikings trailed during the season. He did not score a TD in the first quarter of any game they played last year. Burleson scored six TDs when behind and scored twice in the first quarter. Granted, defenses clearly choose to take him out of the game early...and they did. Moss's value may be in the pressure he took off others but I maintain that as a "game breaker" he needed to step up early and when behind. He can't anymore. In the final analysis I have concluded, as the Viking's brain trusts has that Moss's abilities are no longer the difference maker (for the queens) that they once were. It may be said he is poorly utilized but the reality is that teams have opted to take the home run away and make him beat them another way. This is not what you predicate an offense around and Culpepper has proven that Moss isn't needed in order for him to thrive. Looking at the raw data, it is clear that Moss has had some games where he blew apart defenses but wasn't a difference maker more times than not. The queens fully realize that they can't replace the deep threat but they can score with a wider variety of options; particularly running. With Burress and Burleson (and Robinson) the queens still possess plenty of "stretchability" so don't expect too many in the box. In 2002 (Moss's lowest TD year) the queens scored 46 TDs (Moss had 7) while in 2003 (Moss's best year; 17 TDs) they scored 51 TDs. Last year they scored 50 TDs with Moss missing five games and lame for 1/3 the season. Gentleman the truth of the matter is that Culpepper is infinitely more important to this team's success than Moss and this team will create great offensive production...with or without Randy Moss. He no longer can stretch the field like he first did and the queens will be much less predictable and much better positioned to dictate the flow of the game with a 2x better defense and an offense predicated on winning....not scoring. |
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| Jon - 1361 Posts 03/13/2005 @ 11:04:19 PM |
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Wow. Darren Sharper is off the packers for a minute and all the true feelings come out. Did you guys ever like him? Wasn't he like a rookie when owens made that catch? I guess he needed to be a leader back then too? Seriously though, I understand what you guys are talking about with the leader thing in a sense, but just cause Butler said he was going to be a leader, does that mean that he has to be.? Butler the prophet? And I don't know the situation and the money and all that on this particular deal, but just in the abstract sense, I 'd like to bring up that it's ok to overpay for a player if the onlly other option is to fill that hole with a reasonably priced player that also makes your team a lot worse. I just thought I'd bring that up. Again, not because it necessarily applies, but just cause I was thinking about it. Also, my favorite part about the randy video was watching him ride his wheelchair past al harris to catch that ball. |
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