NFL 2005 Season Week 17 Picks

	Jeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist 12/28/2005 @ 12:03:53 AM
Wanna know something funny? I made the LT comment and thought to myself what are some "absurd" numbers that would vault me into first. Then after I posted the comment I realized that those stats would hardly make a dent in catching up. I'm actually 82 touchdowns out of first place. Now that's an ass kicking!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 12/30/2005 @ 03:20:52 PM
It's weird tha the AFC South is like a palendrome with now in record, division record, and conference record.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 01/01/2006 @ 12:19:18 PM
Anyone else emotional when Favre ran through the tunnel? I don't think this can be his last game, it just can't be. I don't care what's been said, he's Favre and he's the Packer's QB.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 01/01/2006 @ 12:48:47 PM
Peterson just did the grave digger move. I'm feeling so nostalgic. sigh		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/01/2006 @ 02:16:25 PM
To see a beautiful throw like that, and then it's fumbled away. :(		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 01/01/2006 @ 07:28:40 PM
Tice is no more.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - infinity + 1 posts 01/01/2006 @ 07:44:31 PM
Tice didn't die, he was fired.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/01/2006 @ 09:49:47 PM
Did you guys see that Flutie dropped kicked an extra point for New Englad? That's right...a drop kick. That hadn't been done for about 60 years. Amazing. And the Packers draft 5th. I'm hoping LB AJ Hawk from Ohio State, cuz I don't think Bush is going to be available that late.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose 01/01/2006 @ 10:27:25 PM
I actually thought they'd keep Tice. I don't think you can blame him for the players off the field stuff, and they finished strong with the backup QB (though he's probably good enough to start for half the teams in the NFL). But whatever. It'll be an interesting offseason/preseason for them. Does Culpepper stay, does he get his job back or does he have to win it back? Can they keep 5 decent WRs happy? Same RB mess that they've had since what's his face retired, can they keep all of them happy? Who's the new coach? I don't know what Favre is going to do. I didn't know what he was thinking about when he was throwing most of those 29 interceptions, so I'm not going to pretend I have any idea what he is thinking about now. Does anyone know why Flutie drop kicked? Was this for another Patriots commercial or something? I hate them.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - infinity + 1 posts 01/01/2006 @ 10:44:05 PM
I was kind of undecided on what I thought would happen and about the same on what I would like to happen. When I heard that his situation would be decided Monday (which didn't happen) I figured he would probably be let go. I like Mike Tice. I actully began to like him more now in the last few weeks than I ever really did. He seems like a pretty cool guy. (He handled the firing in a really respectable way from what I've read) I don't know if he's right for the coach position for next year or not but I guess the owner decided not. I just hope they get someone who knows what they're doing. As for Culpepper, he's twice the quarterback Brad Johnson is. And I really like Brad Johnson. If Culpepper could have remained healthy and just limited his mistakes, we probably would have won all the same games and possibly the Steelers game.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/01/2006 @ 11:01:20 PM
Culpepper still hasn't proven that he's anything without Moss. And speaking of Moss, I now understand why everyone rips on Norv Turner. He sucks. If, if , if. If Favre hadn't thrown so many game killing interceptions the Packers could have gone 12-4. They only lost 4 games by more than a TD, many of which they had the ball and a realistic chance of coming back until Favre blew it. At least 3 or 4. Actually if I remember right they really could've won the Pittsburgh game too. And the defense actually was more responsible for some of the early losses. Take the defense from the second half of the season and the offense from the first half of the season and the Packers make the playoffs easily. Culpepper may very well be better then Johnson, but you still have to wonder if it will be an open competition or not.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist 01/01/2006 @ 11:07:01 PM
and if you take away all the Vikings losses they would be undefeated.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - many posts 01/01/2006 @ 11:19:01 PM
I just think that the Brad Johnson factor is #3 in the reasons why we started winning. The first thing is that the schedule got much easier. The second is that our defense began to perform closer to their talent level. Daunte being in there certainly wouldn't have changed the fist thing and probably not the second either.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/01/2006 @ 11:31:55 PM
I didn't mean to imply that Johnson's performance was the reason they started winning. I was thinking more along the lines of the absence of Culpepper somehow allowed the team to play better. Like a chemistry sort of a thing. Anytime a #1 goes down and the #2 does better (whether it's really to his credit or not), it makes for an interesting situation when the #1 comes back. And I'm sure you noticed that statistic that Johnson has been an above .500 QB with every team he's been on starter on. As good as Daunte has been at times, he's also been just as bad at other times. Johnson is a consistent, veteran QB who knows how to win. Can you really say that about Culpepper?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 09:58:57 AM
Sherman is also fired. Favre is going to announce his retirement, I just know it. The whole game yesterday was a farewell to him. This sux. I know he had a bad year, but he was just trying too hard. Argue all you want, but I want Favre back for one more year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - Shaken not stirred gets you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth 01/02/2006 @ 11:02:00 AM
If Favre retires, I'll take bets on who will have a better QB next year, Packers or Lions?? Good season everyone, although better for me :)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 12:39:58 PM
The Badgers are looking pretty good so far.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Resident Tech Support 01/02/2006 @ 01:34:08 PM
I'm going to reply to a comment that was made week about Ryan Longwell's flop of a year: While Longwell has missed some very crucial field goals and an extra point that ended up in a 1 point loss, I have an explanation. Longwell has always accepted blame and responsibility for missed fieldgoals throughout his career. This year, however, he continually placed blame on his holder, BJ Sander, for many of his missed field goals. BJ Sander had a pretty crappy year as a punter and as a holder and probably does not have a promising future as an NFL punter, so instead of mentioning that the Packers lost a top 5 receiver in the first game, or that they lost their best OL for about 4 games, or that they lost their number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 rb, I will conceide for the sake of argument and place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the punter, BJ Sander. Without his poor holds, that Packers season easily could have been a lot different. But oh well. The only difference between the Packers and Vikings is that the Packers will get the number 5 draft pick, and the Vikings are just another crappy team that didn't make the playoffs. Another thing about a comment Jeremy made from week one (this is meant to be a humorous, not entirely serious comments): It is indeed impossible to play defense in a Vikings uniform:)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 03:00:13 PM
I predict that Brett Favre will announce his future by the end of the week. Honestly, I hope he stays for one more year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 01/02/2006 @ 03:04:06 PM
Touchdown!!!!!!!!!!!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 01/02/2006 @ 03:36:44 PM
What a game! The Badgers pretty much owned Auburn the whole game, Calhoun and Williams combined for over 400 yards, and Alvarez goes out with a win to be 8-3 in bowl games. And I have to say that this may have been Stocco's best game. That pass from his own end zone with one guy hanging on him and another one about to give a chest shot that he got out to Williams was clutch. Great game all around. Hopefully Calhoun comes back for his senior year and hopefully Joe Thomas' knee injury isn't too bad.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 03:39:24 PM
Barry Alverez, you will be missed. He should run for Governer. I think he'd win. He has the best winning percentage of all time in bowl games. You know, Favre did a lot to bring respect back to the state of Wisconsin, but Barry Alverez started his run before Favre got here. I think Alverez will have left behind a legacy that will result in Wisconsin football forever being the power they are in the Big Ten and in the national rankings. As much as Favre has done, when he leaves, we will only be left with his memories. What Barry Alverez has done for the state of Wisconsin rivals what Vince Lombardi did. I tell you what, I will miss Alverez roaming the sidelines on Saturdays next year and the years to come.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose 01/02/2006 @ 04:34:12 PM
Alvarez basically is Wisconsin sports. This has been brought up by the media before so I'll sure you've all heard it before but still. Before Alvarez, Wisconsin was basically crappy in pretty much every sport. Maybe the hockey team was ok, I don't really follow that too much. Building college athletics programs is all about money, and football is easily where the most dollars are at. By building a championship caliber football program, Alvarez was able to bring in money to help out all the other sports programs. He got fans interested in Wisconsin sports again and brought respect to the school. I still remember something my dad said to me after the first Rose Bowl win. He said something like, "Remember this one and enjoy it while it lasts, because it will probably be a long time before it happens again." But Alvarez's success was not a fluke or a flash in the pan, as he lead the team to two more Rose Bowl victories after that. Certainly Dick Bennett deserves credit for building up the basketball team as well as Bo Ryan, but there's no way that that program is were it is without the money, prestige, and respect that came from Bagders football success. It's all about recruiting, which is all about facilites, success, and prestige. Alvarez has done twice as much as Favre and Lombardi combined for Wisconsin sports. I'll also miss seeing Alvarez on the sidelines, but you still have to feel pretty good about him running the show for the entire athletic department at Wisconsin. And he'd win Governer in a land slide.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 07:58:57 PM
Yes, every miss was because of the holder, regardless of who they tried at holder. Don't you think if Packer management thought it was even part of the problem they would have had Nall or Rodgers holding as of week 2? Also to say that Longwell errors played a part in only one game is rediculous. He missed 2 against the Bears, the end of the game could have played out completly different with even one of the 2. Also have the 7 million sports writers in america list the top 5 receivers and count how many list Javon. I'll give you a hint, it will be 0. In fact if you went to top ten I doubt you'ld see his name. Also I'm pretty happy about the fact that the Vikings got to be in the playoff hunt right up until the end and only have 9 players go between them and a team coming off one of the worst seasons in their 2347 year long history.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Refactor Mercilessly 01/02/2006 @ 08:37:52 PM
I'll have to agree with Jeremy on the Sanders/Longwell situation. Not so much with Javon though. I don't think I've ever said he was in the top 5, but before he got hurt I think he would've gotten some votes for top 10. Obviously at this point he wouldn't. Here's a list of the top 10 receivers by # of catches (its just one stat I know, and maybe not even the most important but humor me). Steve Smith, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Holt, C. Johnson, Gates, Driver, Mason, Smith, S. Moss. Through out Gates, he's a TE. Add in TO, Randy, and Harrison because they've been the best over the last 5 years whether they had the numbers this year or not. So that's 12 guys. I think anyone who watched the Packers in 2004 would have to say that Walker was better than Driver. So that's 11. I'd argue that he's also better than S. Moss and maybe Mason too. That's 9th or 10th. Of course this is assuming he makes a full recovery. And I couldn't care less what the "average" sports writers think. I spend a fraction of the time that they do watching sports and yet in general they usually fail to either make any sense at all or wow me with their in depth knowledge. Your 9 pick difference jubilation still makes no sense to me. I just don't get it. Both teams have fired their coaches, both have questions at the QB and RB spot, their defenses improved throughout the year but weren't great, yet you somehow take comfort in the picking 9 players later and having to win 6 games in a row just to be in the playoff hunt until week 15?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 1000000 posts (and counting!) 01/02/2006 @ 09:10:31 PM
The fact that there's a debate about who had the better season or who is now better off is pretty ridiculous. Granted, neither team made the playoffs, but then again 11 teams that did make the playoffs will leave with a bitter taste in their mouths. Was the Vikings season a waste? Well, I was able to cheer FOR my team the whole season with hope of a playoff game there until the last week. As far as draft picks go, they're fun, but I'll take the wins along with the Minnesota position 9 picks later while the Packers draft another BJ Sander.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 09:52:59 PM
Ok, I never said that longwell's misses only affected one game. I pointed out one game in particular, but never did I limit it to that game. Man. Seriously, unless I actually say something, don't make things up that you want me to have said. I pretty much also can say nothing without Jeremy telling me I'm wrong. I could say that the Packers won 4 games this season, and I'm sure that he could find a way to prove me wrong. Stats-wise, Walker was arguably a top 5 receiver in 2004. He was 3rd in Receiving yards. But whatever, Walker probably doesn't even play for the Packers. If Longwell has always taken the responsiblity for missed field goals in the past, why would he suddenly start laying the blame on his holder? Oh yeah, it's because he's a moron and he's a cocky kicker. No, that's not it. He probably had a bad year, but there were a number of kicks where he pointed out specifically where the hold was bad, and Sander even owned up to it. When someone only looks at a stat book, they only see missed field goals. But when someone listens to interviews and reads what sports writers have to say, they here more than what the stats themselves actually say. I don't know why Packer coaching never switched holders. Maybe that's part of the Reason Sherman got fired, I can't answer that question. But there is no logic to point to Longwell suddenly blaming his holder if indeed it wasn't the case. But again, I don't know anything.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings 01/02/2006 @ 09:57:51 PM
Also, I said many, not all of his misses. Many basically means some or numerous, not all. So no, No one ever said that every miss was because of the holder. Once again, stop making things up simply to make arguments go in your favor. That's what politicans do, not sports writers.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 01/02/2006 @ 10:21:27 PM
Actually I just read your comment wrong. I was running in and out of the room making supper and typing that post. I also never finished the thought on Javon which was that if you went to a top ten list I doubt you'ld see his name on many. The fact that Javon was top 5 in one catagory one year doesn't make him a top 5 reciever. We can never know what he would have done this year and while I'm certainly not saying he'd have been a flop, but I don't know that it's a forgone conclusion that he would have had Steve Smith's season either. Ease up on the backlash, I'm not trying to argue anything in my favor. :) All I meant was that just because the Vikings didn't make the playoffs doesn't mean the season was a write off...bascially what Jon said. If I were arguing that would mean I thought the argument over who had the better season warrented text. Sorry for putting words in your mouth though. They'll henceforth be stricken from the record.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 01/02/2006 @ 10:25:20 PM
Also since sarcasm doesn't translate and things are usually interpereted wrong on the internet I'll point out that I wasn't being sarcastic. I seriously am sorry.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/02/2006 @ 10:57:59 PM
A couple more things. Back to Longwell, it is sort of implied when ripping on a kicker that there could be a myriad of factors involved in the kicking game. To an extent ripping on a kicker is ripping on the entirety of the kicking game to begin with anyway. Every position in every sport needs help from teammates that isn't always there. As for the Draft pick thing and Alex questioning my reasoning. Yes a 9 player difference is huge (especially since kfan where I heard it was wrong and it's actually an 11 player gulf) BUT the Packers had a nightmare season. They were out of if what seems like eons ago, fans were rooting against them. Only 2 teams have a worse record yet the Packers pick 5th, the second worst they could get with that record. Ask the Giants how much moving up a couple spots in the top 5 can cost. 15 teams finished worse than the Vikings and the Vikings pick 17th. One back from the best they could have done with that record and only 2 back from the best they could have done if they lost the then meaningless Bears game after they were out of contention. My logic, albiet flawed I'm sure, is that in a way the Packers suffered so much yet ended up in a pretty bad situation given what they went though and the Vikings got to have their cake and eat it too. One could argue, as Scott and Alex might be, that if a team doesnt make they playoffs they may as well go 0-16 so they can get the draft pick. It's a valid agument because obviously if a Superbowl is the goal there are 31 equal losers in the end so you may as well aim for the future. Although in principle I can't argue with this I'll take the wins and the hope that came with them.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Anon. Nut Can Fan (Guest) 01/03/2006 @ 01:31:32 PM
Here's my logic: A)Misery loves company. So if I had to suffer through the worst Packer season in the last 20 years, I must do my best to persuade Vikings fans that the Viking's season was also a disaster. B)As a Packer fan, it is my duty to refute pretty much anything Vikings fans say (if the topic is the Packers or Vikings). As a not complete moron, it is my duty to try and make valid arguments when having discussions. Occassionaly, these 2 duties result in a conflict of interest. Just be glad that I at least make an attempt to back up my points. C)The only game where I may actually have had thoughts of rooting against the Packers was the Bears game, because of its tremendous implications in keeping the Vikings out of the playoffs. For all other such comments I may have made about wanting the Packers to lose, see A and B.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/03/2006 @ 02:02:38 PM
Post of the year nominee.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/03/2006 @ 06:42:32 PM
that was me by the way		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/04/2006 @ 12:11:36 AM
I hope you all watched the game tonight. One of the best football games I've ever seen. Paterno and Bowden are two great, classy coaches, and their teams played their hearts out tonight. There's no way tomorrow's game will live up to this one.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.