NFL 2004 Season Week 17 Picks

	icbeast - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 12/30/2004 @ 12:25:19 PM
There are a few teams that Warner could start on. He may not be a a very good starter anymore, but he'd be an upgrade for teams like Chicago, Dallas, Cleveland, Miami, and maybe a few more.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 12/30/2004 @ 11:19:57 PM
It's hard to believe the season is over.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3375 Posts 12/31/2004 @ 01:16:22 AM
Kurt Warner is starting caliber. Remember their record before Eli started? Granted, Eli's a rookie, but when Favre retires after this year, you're gonna wish you had Warner there to take over.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 12/31/2004 @ 11:25:22 AM
um......no		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/01/2005 @ 12:22:28 PM
Craig Nall or Warner? yea, that IS a toughy.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - many posts 01/02/2005 @ 02:00:09 AM
The other thing about Warner...people write him off as if he hasn' thrown a completion in eight years. The way I remember it, he won two MVP awards, got injured, had a string of about 5 bad games, had more injury problems, then went to the Giants where he started about half the season and had a winning record. He still managed to throw for over 2000 yards and had an 86.5 quarterback rating. Brett Favre has a passing rating of what? 90.4. People just watch warners numbers not always equaling the 450 yards he used to throw for and figured he's completely washed up. The guy played with a broken finger for like half the year one year. The media jumped on the "Warner's done" bandwagon way too early and too many people followed. Done or not, at least let him prove it on the field. Favre, Culpepper, etc. have all had bad streaks, even lasting up to a season. Let's be fair.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Cory 01/02/2005 @ 02:59:02 AM
The Bears don't need a QB. They have Rex Grossman. Unless of course you mean for Warner to go to Chicago to play the last game of the season, a game which is totally meaningless.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Cory - 44 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 03:01:09 AM
Also the Bengals have Carson Palmer and the Cowboys have Drew Henson. Granted Henson doesn't look too good, he has hardly gotten a chance. They all have young QB's who just need some time to learn and mature. Miami however would be a good place for Warner to go.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 10:19:32 AM
Yea, i too was wondering about the chicago comment. grossman did well and is their future, despite his injury. Warner has done some good, but then he reverts to holding the ball too long and getting sacked and fumbling and who knowns what else. He's old too, so I don't think he would make a good back up to Favre even if I did want him on the Packers after Favre retired.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - No one's gay for Moleman 01/02/2005 @ 11:31:18 AM
Warner holding the ball too long wouldn't be an issue in GB. The Giants have no offensive line.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 01/02/2005 @ 12:49:23 PM
William Henderson is my hero		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 01/02/2005 @ 01:05:55 PM
Like I've always said, I don't have a problem with Nall. I've liked what I've seen and I'm liking what I see now.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 01:11:34 PM
Not sure if the Ravens are even in the playoff race but sucks to be them. Ray Lewis broke his wrist. I like talking to myself on this blog.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 01/02/2005 @ 03:05:31 PM
No one ever suggested Warner should go to Cincinnati. Grossman has only started 6 games in his career, so he is hardly a sure thing as far as the future goes, ecspecially considering he is coming back from a serious injury. The Steelers winning this game right now the way they are proves that my mom could be the QB of that team and still win 15 games. Henson has started what one game, and he pretty much stunk, so if you're suggesting placing all your faith in him to be the starter next year you would last about 2 seconds as a GM (although I don't think the Bears GM got fired for similar silliness). Nall probably deserves a chance to start someday, but the fact is that despite constant rumors and such, Favre might end up playing 5 more years. I'm not counting on it and neither should the Packers, but you just don't know. If for some reason he did retire (which I only see happening if they win the SuperBowl), bringing in Warner seems like a good idea to me, unless they can get Brees. The Ravens are still alive I believe, but will not go far anyway because of their offense. The Eagles not actually playing a real game for a month is going to hurt them I think.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Bretx0r uses Firefox (Guest) 01/02/2005 @ 03:26:28 PM
I see Jeremy is still on the refs gave Green Bay the season bandwagon. Does anything ever change?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 03:29:14 PM
Well, the NFC's "hottest team" couldn't get it done. Saints possibly coming to Lambeau? I guess it all depends on the St Louis Jets game.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 03:48:12 PM
Sorgi is 8/8		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 01/02/2005 @ 03:57:43 PM
Let me get this straight, regardless of the results of the Seattle game, Minnesota is the 6th seed? And we host the 6th seed? Is that a good thing?????		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 07:11:43 PM
We play the Vikings next week. But Minnesota shouldn't even show up because the refs have decided the outcome of this game already, right? Favre has thrown 30 td passes for the 8th season. The next closest is Marino with 4 seasons of 30 or more. Still dominant? Maybe. Is Favre retiring after this year? I'm also pretty sure that the refs called every game in favor of the Packers. In fact, the Packers have never gotten a bad call in their favor, and I think they actually commit a penalty on every single play, but the refs only call the ones they like. They are football's version of bonnie and clyde or something. They would be 0-16 if it wasn't for the refs. The "ref handout" comment made my day by the way. It just never gets old. I have more conifident right now with the Packers playing in a dome than I do with them playing outside, including Lambeau. Backed in? Yes'um Nall has looked pretty good this year when he's played. Raymond James Stadium is a pretty cool stadium. The Priate ship doesn't look quite as big in person though. (i was at the Outback Bowl). Reggie White isn't the first Packer that has had the Flag lowered for him. In spite of the fact that I don't think football players merrit a half-massed flag, I believe that he was honored for what he did off the field. This might not be the best example, but I don't necessarily think that the flag should be reserved only for military purposes. I'm out.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 07:51:15 PM
Not 0-16, just 8-8. How can you even argue the "ref handout" comment? Every NFL pundit said the Redskins td being taken off the board was at best a ticky tack call and mostly complete BS. Then they followed that up by giving the Packers a fumble recovery that was clearly recovered by the Vikings. Maybe I could stop complaining if something like that EVER went the Vikings way.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 08:28:23 PM
In the redskins game.....ticky-tack calls happen every game, and until I see sources, the "mostly BS" comment is not credible. Even if it was ticky tack, which it probably was, it doesn't change the rule. It was a prior to the snap penalty, not a judgement like pass int or holding or something like that. The infraction happened before the play even started and the player was glancing forward before the snap. Ticky tack or not, that is the rule, not a judgement. If the play was anything but a touchdown no one would be complaining about anything, but just because the redskins receiver happened to be moving forward on a play that resulted in a touchdown does not make it a ref handout, it makes it the right call. Seriously, that is one of the most rediculous arguments I could imagine. Next week is going to be intense.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - I hate our freedoms 01/02/2005 @ 08:55:33 PM
They talked about the play on all the NFL shows, and the consensous was that the Redskins got robbed.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 08:56:35 PM
In Ben Steele's own words he said he picked up a loose ball, he said he didn't need to wrestle it away from anyone, and that he was on top of the ball the entire time. Ross said that he had it pried away from him. Who's telling the truth. I have the game on tape but it's at my house which is not in Eau Claire. Does anyone know where to find a video of the game to watch the replay? Cuz I can't find anything.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/02/2005 @ 10:52:37 PM
Happy New Year by the way!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 01/03/2005 @ 05:37:50 AM
I just want to congratulate myself on winning the season. It was a tough fight, I was the underdog, but somehow I managed to beat the 2 time defending champion by pulling off a great final week. I just want to thank my fans, the naysayers, and Brett Favre, for without these people, it just would not have been possible. Bring on the playoffs!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 06:47:12 AM
Derek Ross was on top of the ball with no one else even near him.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - On your mark...get set...Terrible! 01/03/2005 @ 12:58:13 PM
10-6, 150-106 for the season		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 01:32:47 PM
The Angels want to change their name to "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim". That's funny. I'd refer to them as the "L-triple-A's".		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 09:31:57 PM
from week one....... ======"The Vikes receiving corps are better without Moss than the Packers, I mean really does the Driver-Ferguson 1-2 punch scare anyone?"====== The Driver-Walker 1-2 punch scares people. And the Packers receiving corps was indeed better than the Vikings receiving corps without Moss. Campbell, Burleson, and Robinson totaled 2027 yards on 135 receptions. The Walker-Driver combination totaled 2590 on their own on 173 receptions. and that's without Ferguson, who was part of the week one "comparison of receivers". Yes I know Moss missed some games because of injuries, which might be why the top 4 Viking receivers don't quite have the numbers that the top 3 Packer receivers have. Ya know what else is weird. I think the first game Javon Walker started all season was the week 16 game against the Vikings.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on? 01/03/2005 @ 09:51:20 PM
In fact, it looks every WR comparison made by jeremy in the week one comments was wrong. Donald Driver almost doubled Marcus Robinson in catches and yards, and Driver had more tds, so..... Driver >> M Rob Javon Walker was approximately 4 games worth of catches and yards better than Burleson, with more yards, so...... Walker >> Burleson Campbell and Ferguson were pretty much tied in every category, but Ferguson did have the edge in catches, so.... Ferguson = Campbell and the "Moss > (Driver + Walker + Ferguson)" wouldn't make any sense even if moss was healthy all season. Moss is awesome, and did score a td in all but one game in which he played, but Driver and Walker did good. So in summary, i'm really bored and have nothing better to do than look back on page3 archives and bring up old topics. I have a speech to prepare.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 10:03:06 PM
One better season doesn't make them better. Not to mention it's not something that should even warrant comparison. Your number one guy beat our number 2 and your number 2 guy beat a guy that barely played. (I'm officially ending the Javon is our 3rd reciever cherade) Robinson has been hurting all year as well for what it's worth.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings 01/03/2005 @ 10:10:05 PM
oh sorry, viking receivers are still better		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - 3875 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 10:51:31 PM
charade		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/03/2005 @ 11:30:17 PM
I didn't mean they are better, but you have to compare apples to apples, take the whole career into consideration, take their abilities and such, one year worth of stats when burleson was the only one who really saw the field is worthless.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - infinity + 1 posts 01/04/2005 @ 12:13:10 AM
Ok, so can we end all the arguments? Not because I don't love to talk sports and debate good sprots topics but haven't we reached the end of all of these topics? Is three years enough? Either we're debating that one receiver corp is better cause they have the top two with more receptions, or the other team is better cause they have one guy with more than everyone or the other is better cause there are three receivers on the team who have a lot of catches, or yards, or touchdowns. And then one quarterback throws for more than the other so are they better? No, they're not better, the refs gave it to them. Football sucks. No, baseball sucks. Basketball must suck, no? Your teams have criminals on them. No yours do. My team that I cheer for because of mostly arbitrary reasons is easily the most intrinsically good team around. Maybe I'll post something that will obviously get under another person's skin and then create a big argument that never ends.Bret Favre Brett Favre Brett Favre Brett Favre Brett Favre Brett Favre Brett FAvre Brett Favre. I'd have double bagged it.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Who controls the past now controls the future 01/04/2005 @ 12:20:42 AM
If you're comparing them long term than I suggest u realize that MRob has 1 season with more than 55 catches and he's about as injury prone as they come, so his being hurt all year is worth nothing. In 8 seasons he has played in all 16 games only 3 times. He's eclipsed the 750 yard mark once. Basically one-third of his career stats came from one year, 1999. Also, Walker has moved into at least the top 10 receivers in the NFL. He was 3rd in yards, 8th in receptions, 24th in avg (1 spot behind TO), 3rd in YPG (Moss was only 39th because of his token games), 6th longest catch, 6th in TDs, he did fumble twice (but Bruce, Holt, TO, J. Smith, D. Bennett, Porter, D.Jackson, and Muhammad also had at least 2 fumbles). Also, lets look at this way. Moss was hurt so it makes comparisons a little difficult. How about Walker + Driver versus Moss + Robinson + Burleson. Packers 173 rec 2600 yds 15.0 avg 21 tds Vikings 164 rec 2430 yds 14.8 avg 30 tds So we can clearly see that the Packers receivers had a better year, except for TDs. This can be explained by the fact that the Packers' TEs and FB combined for 10 receiving TDs while the Vikings same positions had only 4, and the Packers had 1 more rushing TD. And if you are really looking at the career stats it would be much easier to wait until after their careers are over. Finally, congratulations to me for picking TO, Manning, and Buffalo's defense who lead me to real fantasy victory despite the fact that my awesome lineup of draft day running backs failed me for the most part. Also, a shoutout to Terrence McGee and Willis McGahee for being there when I needed them.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Refactor Mercilessly 01/04/2005 @ 12:25:54 AM
I started that comment before Jon's was posted, but in response to that if we aren't going to discuss sports here what are going to talk about? It's cold here in Menomonee Falls, how's the weather back ina;dfjdklasjfds... oops I fell asleep on the keyboard!!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3375 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 01:28:49 AM
I didn't say don't discuss sports, I just think we could cover more than three topics. Not to mention I think we could do ourselves a lot of good if we just all agree that we will still side with our favorite teams/players 95 percent of the time no matter what the argument. Or are you Packer fans going to say Culpepper is better because he threw for more yards than anyone this year? Or maybe Jeremy, Matt, and I will say that we think Ahman Green is the best rb on either team. I know I'm just about to go to Scheels and get that Donald Driver authentic jersey. I know it's still fun to debate sports, it's actually one of my favorite things to do. But even if we never talk about any of this (the refs, Brett Favre, etc.) again, we've already exhausted the lifetime allotment. Page 3 has become Groundhog Day. Every week the alarm goes off and I wake up to Sonny and Cher debating whether the refs screwed one team over or not. Then I make my way to the celebration to see if Brett Favre comes out of his hole and sees his shadow or not. We never see any progress of course, because it just keeps happening over and over. Myabe I'm just asking for too much. Maybe I'm waiting for the kid who falls out of the tree to thank me. I guess I just need Andie MacDowell to fall in love with me.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 01/04/2005 @ 03:13:07 AM
I still say football sucks		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 01/04/2005 @ 06:53:14 AM
The Vikings have no fullback, and 9 TD's is a significant difference. Does Andie MacDowell work at Old Navy?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 01/04/2005 @ 06:57:24 AM
that's never going to happen unless you go talk to her		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 07:49:32 AM
other topics? I'll pretend you didn't say that		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 07:51:11 AM
Culpepper's season this year was as good as Favre's first MVP season, but thanks to Manning, Culpepper probably won't get it, unless they do the Co-mvp thing again this year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 07:54:09 AM
so......is the weather going to be a factor?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 07:56:14 AM
so far it's 33 degrees and sunny for Sunday's game.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - On your mark...get set...Terrible! 01/04/2005 @ 11:00:36 AM
So Shawn Alexander applogized for complaining about not getting the 1 yard he needed for the rushing record, calling it a stab in the back. He took the high road and came down on his own actions so he gained a lot of respect from a lot of people, but was his complaint legit or was it simply him being too concerned with a record and not concerned enough about the teams success? Thoughts.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 12:54:02 PM
are the st. paul papers hard on the Vikings? I just read an article from the St. paul Pioneer Press here that was posted on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal webpage that kinda bashed Moss's action of leaving the game before it was actually over. Is the Minnesota press just extra hard on Randy Moss and the Vikings, or is the rest of the Viking nation just as upset about his actions? This is my attempt to bring new topics to the page.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 01:24:34 PM
I don't know what down they scored on, so I'm not sure if Alexander has a legit complaint or not. I would say probably, although Holmgren may not have done it on purpose. Either way, I'm sure the division rival Rams allowed Curtis as many yards as they could without losing the game. They are the real culprits here. I don't know about the Vikings, but the Bears fans love to rip on their own team. Just listen to Chicago radio on a Monday sometime. Quote of the day: ""To live like I ain't never lived before," the Washington Redskins running back said. "If y'all see me in the news, and I make the news for something that I ain't got no business making it for, don't bash me. Say it was a young guy living."" - Clinton Portis		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - As Seen On The Internet 01/04/2005 @ 05:38:40 PM
The Minny paper love to bash Moss and usually the Vikings as a whole. It's really kind of sad how they'll try anything to make a stir. As far as I'm concerned I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I wish he didn't do it. At least it show's he cares. :) As for the rushing record, the only way Alexander has any right to complain is if he was keeping track of every yard he got and how many he needed, and it wasn't a "in hindsight if we didn't sneak I would have won thing." If that IS the case that he was keeping track that doesn't say much for him anyway. As for Daunte and the MVP, I would obviously love to see it, but I don't think you can make much of a case for it. Maybe a 1% chance at CO MVP cause he was 2nd (or 1st in a couple things) in like everything, and did it without Moss for 5 games (and realistically more). I forget what went down last year, but I remember either McNair or Manning really deserved it more and it was split, so we'll see, but if Mannings year doesn't get MVP (or a share of Barry Sanders') what would?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist 01/04/2005 @ 05:42:02 PM
Interesting Article		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 06:54:45 PM
If I remember correctly Manning deserved it more last year but McNair got votes for being injured all the time. Since many feel Manning was maybe slighted a little last year, I see no chance of Daunte being a co-MVP this year. It has to be Manning. It's hard to disagree too much with that article since it comes from a former player. The backing in part I agree with. A team's record is either good enough or not. The momentum thing I'm not so sure about. It is probably overrated, but I think it still matters some. At least to certain players I'm sure. Not everyone can reboot and flush the RAM between games. Almost time for kickoff!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 01/04/2005 @ 07:04:42 PM
I was thinking about that too, and Mike Tice of all people brought it to my attention in a good way. I guess the point is that if a team starts out good and falls off a bit at the end but still makes the playoffs, their good start allowed them to do bad at the end and still make the playoffs. For a team like the Packers who started off bad and finished strong the only difference really is momentum, which is kind of a arbitrary stat, although it does speak for something.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3375 Posts 01/05/2005 @ 02:55:07 AM
I didn't like the Moss thing a bit, and I certainly don't think it's the end of the world, but I'm actaully surprised there isn't more outrage or comments from media and from, say, packer fans. Maybe I haven't been listening closely enough though. I did however expect Scott to rip into Moss pretty good, honestly. To me, what he did is separate himself from the team...and no, not just physically. And that's not cool. You win as a team and lose as a team. I feel pretty strongly about that. It seemed to me that doing what he did, was in essence saying that he was somehow above waiting the two seconds until it was all over for real. Or that his teammates were losers but he wasn't. It's basically making yourself out to be either bigger or better than the team. I would say, more to the point, it's a case of someone drawing attention to themselves in some sort of attempt to save face. (And I understand the frustration and emotions that contribute to that kind of thing and, honestly, I would guess that we've all done similar things in various aspects of life. But it's still wrong.) And some will probably say that's overanalyzing it, but what then were his motivations for doing it? Was he parked in the meters? Did he want to get the hot water before it ran out? Cause he obviously felt he deserved to be able to go on his own and leave his teammates by themselves. Ultimately though, as I told someonte else, I'm still going to cheer for him and the Vikings. I've given up on athletes acting perfectly. I'll leave the punishment to the coaching staff.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matthew (Guest) 01/05/2005 @ 03:16:18 AM
This is pretty funny Fake Mastercard/Red Sox commercial		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 01/05/2005 @ 10:50:27 PM
Quote (actually it's an excerpt from an article by Dan Le Batard in The Mag) for the day: "And there are too many examples of football being a game in name only. TO dances in the end zone, and he's 'disrespecting the game,' whatever the heck that means. Can you disrespect, say, Chutes and Ladders?"		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 01/05/2005 @ 11:09:51 PM
I didn't realize that this will be the first time ever that the Packers and Vikings will meet in the playoffs.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.