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Green Bay Packers
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An ESPN article about Jennings and Favre

This was a good story. Kinda makes you teary eyed and such.

All kidding aside, I thought it was a good story about how our heroes drive us to improve, and how they are ultimately people afterall. Good stuff.

One more year....
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
12/26/2007 @ 04:44:36 PM
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I read that this morning too. Interesting how you took it the "Favre really drove him to improve" angle, and not the "Favre is a giant asshole to a vast majority of his teammates" angle they practically spelled out. emoticon
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Jeremy perfected this 3 times, last at 12/26/2007 4:48:48 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
12/26/2007 @ 04:48:09 PM
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^^^ Will have 4 zeros in 3.....2......1
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
12/26/2007 @ 04:49:26 PM
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I was kind of thinking that too, in a sense. But, even the coolest guy in the world can't be super chummy with everyone especially people he's barely met. It was a good point about Jennings not getting any sympathy from a guy who's dealt with a lot of adversity and came away from it. Anyway, it was nice to hear about Favre (so to speak) from the perspective of a budding talent.
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scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
12/26/2007 @ 04:49:59 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 04:48:09 PM
^^^ Will have 4 zeros in 3.....2......1


I was also thinking, "just because he's expecting it, I'll rate him a 0." But I decided not to after this comment.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - I hate our freedoms
12/26/2007 @ 04:55:08 PM
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Well, sure, but "chummy" and the basic societal level of acknowledging there's another human being along your path from point A to point B are two different things.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
12/26/2007 @ 04:59:00 PM
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Maybe that's his way of demanding the most from his teammates. Or, maybe you just hate Brett Favre. Take that.

(clearly, I just put that last 2 sentences for old time, every Favre comment from Jeremy is a Hate Favre comment, sake)
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I hate our freedoms
12/26/2007 @ 05:06:48 PM
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Also, I think we need to put down odds on what the chances are that Greg Jennings', mid frozen I'm-not-supposed-to-be-here staredown, thoughts actually went to Favre's 18 second role in "There's something about Mary". I'm placing them at .000004%.
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Jeremy messed with this at 12/26/2007 5:07:07 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
12/26/2007 @ 05:14:02 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 04:55:08 PM
Well, sure, but "chummy" and the basic societal level of acknowledging there's another human being along your path from point A to point B are two different things.


By the way, I think men have defined that most "basic societal level of acknowledging" as the ever-so-slight upward nod. What do women do?
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
12/26/2007 @ 05:32:53 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 05:14:02 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 04:55:08 PM
Well, sure, but "chummy" and the basic societal level of acknowledging there's another human being along your path from point A to point B are two different things.
By the way, I think men have defined that most "basic societal level of acknowledging" as the ever-so-slight upward nod. What do women do?


They mostly bat their eyes at me, I don't know about everyone else.
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - A Vote for me is a Vote against Terrorism! ...or atleast just wasted.
12/26/2007 @ 07:43:14 PM
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emoticon
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matt.jpgMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
12/26/2007 @ 10:09:16 PM
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With an homage to Jeremy:

Favre = God ..... Check!
Favre as a carefree spirit who just loves to play the game ..... Check!
Favre throws the ball really hard ..... Check!

Good Job Mr. Wickersham. You must have been paying attention in J-school. A+++


In all seriousness, I saw this last night/early this morning and skimmed it, but only got about a third of the way through before I wanted to vomit. I just tried again and made it half way.

The problem with this article, and others like it, is that it takes a star player (Favre, Jeter are the favorites) and uses little anecdotes to praise the player for doing something, or acting in a way that at least half the other players in the league do as well. It doesn't even matter what the "action" or trait is. You could go through this article and turn Favre's actions 180 degrees, and it would have no impact on the rest of the story, whatever Favre did must have been the right way (even though if someone like Randy Moss circa 2003 ignored a rookie teammate, he would have just been an asshole).

It's not that we hate Favre or Jeter, or think they suck (at least I don't, they're both really good at their respective sports), but the media and fans elevate them to God-like levels, which is just stupid. We get sick of hearing how they have these "special abilities" that make them better than they appear, and how any flaws they may appear to have are not flaws at all (Like Michael Scott, their weaknesses are actually strengths).

PS: As for Favre ignoring Jennings early on, from the parts I read, I have no problem with it. Rookies are usually treated like crap early on by the veterans and this is no different. If it was still going on, it would be another matter, but that doesn't seem to be the case. What is interesting, though, is how it does go against the standard "vision" of Favre that is usually portrayed by the media.
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Matt screwed with this 2 times, last at 12/26/2007 10:13:51 pm
scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
12/26/2007 @ 10:51:29 PM
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as for Favre ignoring Jennings early on, there's a chance Favre didn't even know who the guy was. Wasn't it during training camp or something like that?

You know who else is a really friendly guy on and off the field? Damien Miller, but nobody would give 2 seconds of their time to read about a career .262 hitter. (ok, maybe I would, but that's just because I'm a sucker for Wisconsin celebrities) There are plenty of a-holes in sports, and there are plenty of genuinely good guys in sports. Being an incredible athlete and a really nice guy is something that people like to hear about. Sure there's some overkill, but in the realm of sports it sort of comes with the territory. It's never really bothered me that certain athletes get more attention than others. I mean, We've heard a crapload about the Patriots this year, but it makes sense. We all know that Lance Armstrong survived cancer to win like 12 straight Tour de France Freedom.

To the media and fans elevating them to God-like levels comment...this happens all the time, and it has been happening sense the beginning of time (or at least since the beginning of sports). There is not one person who follows sports and is a serious sports fan that doesn't have his (or her) boyhood (or current) hero so far above reality that there is less reasoning and more fantasy.

I can honestly say that I don't get sick of Jeter (and I'm more or less a Yankee hater), mainly because I cannot recall him being overly glorified by the media. Maybe it's just because I tune it out, maybe it's because New York doesn't really pertain to me. I think the fact that Jon, Matt, and Jeremy are die hard Viking fans adds to the annoyance of hearing about Favre 24/7. The guys I work with here in Florida say they don't really notice the Favre-apalooza in the media, or at least they don't really care. Anyway, haven't we had this debate/discussion about 14325 times over the last 5 years.


Summary of my post: some sports fans don't mind when the great athletes get (a bit) overglorified by the media, and some do. I'm in the camp of not minding, or at least being able to tune out when the athlete in the spotlight is not of my interest.
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scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
12/26/2007 @ 10:53:27 PM
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Also, I think everyone on this site (other than JFK) has figured out that no one on this site actually hate Brett Favre, nor does anyone actually question his accomplishment.

edit: What if Favre actually is everything (or at least almost everything) that the media says about him? What then?
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Scott screwed with this at 12/26/2007 10:58:42 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - The pig says "My wife is a slut?"
12/26/2007 @ 11:25:52 PM
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Scott Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 10:51:29 PM
Being an incredible athlete and a really nice guy is something that people like to hear about.


I agree. The point was that roughly 80% of the article is about Favre being a prick to everyone around him and being an all around bad teammate. (If T.O. started changing in a second locker room next season ESPN would start ESPN3-ESPN7 just to cover how big of an ego he must have.) Then the last 20% of the article is about how Favre doesn't disdain Jennings anymore and the two get along.

It isn't an article about Favre being a nice guy. It's an article about him being a douche-bag turned to someone who behaves in an acceptable manner in society. If you and Brett were alone on an elevator and you said "Hi. I'm a huge Packer fan from WI and you have been my favorite player essentially my whole life." and Brett offered no response, but also didn't spit on you, would you leave that elevator saying "Wow, what a nice guy!" If he responded "Thanks, that means a lot to me. What area of Wisconsin did you grow up in? ... Oh, no kidding, I did a book signing there once and I heard the line wrapped around the mall twice, speaking of which, we have a couple seconds to kill, want me to sign something?" Then yes you could say he was a genuinely nice guy. (And no I don't think he should have to do anything like that.)

It's not just Favre, I just think as a society we expect celebs to be so awful to everyone around them that even exchanging the smallest of small talk with someone earns them the "Down to earth" nicest person ever title.

And to Matt's point: I'm sure Vets are jerks to rookies (though generally in a more playful way) I just thought it was funny how it's being interpreted as an article singing Favre's praises.
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matt.jpgMatt - Ombudsman
12/26/2007 @ 11:36:02 PM
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Scott Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 10:51:29 PM
You know who else is a really friendly guy on and off the field? Damien Miller, but nobody would give 2 seconds of their time to read about a career .262 hitter.


Which is my point, being friendly does not make Favre unique or more special than any other friendly player, so why does the media feel the need to beat us over the head with it all the time.

Scott Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 10:51:29 PM
There is not one person who follows sports and is a serious sports fan that doesn't have his (or her) boyhood (or current) hero so far above reality that there is less reasoning and more fantasy.


I agree and expect it, but that doesn't excuse the Maddens and Bermans and Wickershams (and to include Jeter, the McCarvers) in the media .

Scott Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 10:51:29 PM
I think the fact that Jon, Matt, and Jeremy are die hard Viking fans adds to the annoyance of hearing about Favre 24/7. The guys I work with here in Florida say they don't really notice the Favre-apalooza in the media, or at least they don't really care.


Being Vikings fans definitely plays into it somewhat. As for Floridians, do they even care about sports other than College Football?

Scott Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 10:53:27 PM
What if Favre actually is everything (or at least almost everything) that the media says about him? What then?


I have no doubt most of it is true (or at least has some truth to it), but most of the things he gets "credit" for: 1. aren't unique, or 2. have no bearing on him being a better QB than others (which is often stated as the case).
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
12/26/2007 @ 11:46:00 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 11:25:52 PM
And to Matt's point: I'm sure Vets are jerks to rookies (though generally in a more playful way) I just thought it was funny how it's being interpreted as an article singing Favre's praises.


Yeah, I got that, I just wanted to make it clear that while he wasn't acting like the media would have you expect, he wasn't really being an asshole either. It was within the bounds of what I would think any 17-year Vet would act like. Of course, like you said, for him it becomes a plus. For Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens (steroid issues notwithstanding) it's a negative.
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newalex.jpgAlex - Refactor Mercilessly
12/27/2007 @ 12:49:09 AM
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Familiarity breeds contempt. But no one wants to read about people they don't know, because that might require some actually thought on the part of the writer and the reader, and that would be just a terrible waste of time.

I just read an entire 380 page book tonight. It didn't mention Favre even once, so I wouldn't recommed it.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
12/27/2007 @ 07:42:16 AM
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College Football is definitely king down here. People do care about the Buccaneers, but mention Tim Tebow, the debates are way, way more vicious than any of our Favre/Packer/Viking debates. Sports fans are either absolutely obsessed with the Gators or they loathe the very thought of evening looking at a University of Florida Alumn. It's literally split right down the middle, and their doesn't really seem to be any sports fan down here that doesn't fall into one of those two camps. There's no middle ground.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
12/27/2007 @ 07:43:17 AM
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Matt Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 11:46:00 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 11:25:52 PM
And to Matt's point: I'm sure Vets are jerks to rookies (though generally in a more playful way) I just thought it was funny how it's being interpreted as an article singing Favre's praises.
Yeah, I got that, I just wanted to make it clear that while he wasn't acting like the media would have you expect, he wasn't really being an asshole either. It was within the bounds of what I would think any 17-year Vet would act like. Of course, like you said, for him it becomes a plus. For Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens (steroid issues notwithstanding) it's a negative.


Except that Barry Bonds seems to be a prick to everyone, including the media.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
12/27/2007 @ 08:10:51 AM
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Scott Wrote - 12/27/2007 @ 07:43:17 AM
Matt Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 11:46:00 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 12/26/2007 @ 11:25:52 PM
And to Matt's point: I'm sure Vets are jerks to rookies (though generally in a more playful way) I just thought it was funny how it's being interpreted as an article singing Favre's praises.
Yeah, I got that, I just wanted to make it clear that while he wasn't acting like the media would have you expect, he wasn't really being an asshole either. It was within the bounds of what I would think any 17-year Vet would act like. Of course, like you said, for him it becomes a plus. For Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens (steroid issues notwithstanding) it's a negative.


Except that Barry Bonds seems to be a prick to everyone, including the media.


I think that comes from the 'roids.
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