Torii Hunter To The Angels (and other Hot Stove happenings)

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Torii Hunter To The Angels (and other Hot Stove happenings)

It's kind of suprising that it was the Angels, since, as Jon reminded me, they just spent a bunch of money on Gary Matthews Jr. last year to be their centerfielder.

Update: Unless Jeremy objects, I figured we could just use this to discuss the various Twins related trade news/rumors this offseason.
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	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/22/2007 @ 05:03:28 AM
That sucks.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 11/22/2007 @ 08:17:47 AM
good bye to santana too then.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.
Sarah messed with this at 11/22/2007 10:51:41 am

	jthompto - 209 Posts 11/22/2007 @ 09:36:36 AM
Its a sad day. But hopefully this will give the Twins can enough money to resign Santana. Hunter is 32 and just had his best season in his contract year. I am just glad he didn't sign with the White Sox, which was the hot rumor.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 11/22/2007 @ 11:13:33 AM
For some reason, Hunter has probably been my favorite Twin of the last..well ever really. Like he said though, sometimes it's just time to move on and by all accounts the Twins probably aren't going to contend in the very near future. And as mentioned, at least he left the division. In other baseball news, the Brewers traded Johnny Estrada for Guillermo Mota. Clearly Estrada ended the season as not particularly a fan favorite or coach favorite, so I guess that's not too suprising that he got traded. If I'm reading things correctly this will save the Brewers some money and if they can't sign Cordero (seems like the media doesn't think they can afford him) maybe Mota will get a shot at closer? Either way some bullpen help is there probably there biggest offseason concern. They signed Jason Kendall to take his place, who's not such a good hitter anymore, but really neither was Estrada and Kendall seems better defensively. I wouldn't be suprised if Mike Rivera gets more playing time too.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos the Turkey in EC (Guest) 11/22/2007 @ 03:38:28 PM
What a waste. Do the angels have a team to wrap around Torii, or are they trying to build something? I guess it is a waste in two ways- if they paid big bucks for Matthews then buy Torii... Awww... hell.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - Non-Creator 11/22/2007 @ 05:53:27 PM
Alex Wrote - 11/22/2007 @ 11:13:33 AM For some reason, Hunter has probably been my favorite Twin of the last..well ever really. Like he said though, sometimes it's just time to move on and by all accounts the Twins probably aren't going to contend in the very near future. And as mentioned, at least he left the division. In other baseball news, the Brewers traded Johnny Estrada for Guillermo Mota. Clearly Estrada ended the season as not particularly a fan favorite or coach favorite, so I guess that's not too suprising that he got traded. If I'm reading things correctly this will save the Brewers some money and if they can't sign Cordero (seems like the media doesn't think they can afford him) maybe Mota will get a shot at closer? Either way some bullpen help is there probably there biggest offseason concern. They signed Jason Kendall to take his place, who's not such a good hitter anymore, but really neither was Estrada and Kendall seems better defensively. I wouldn't be suprised if Mike Rivera gets more playing time too. Kendall awesome locker room guy.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 11/23/2007 @ 04:41:12 PM
Alex Wrote - 11/22/2007 @ 11:13:33 AM If I'm reading things correctly this will save the Brewers some money and if they can't sign Cordero (seems like the media doesn't think they can afford him) Looks like the media was right. Cordero agrees to contract with the Reds		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 11/23/2007 @ 05:35:10 PM
If the price was right I definitely wish Cordero would've stayed. There's no way the Brewers could pay him that much though, even if you take the stance that he isn't getting over paid. So I guess congrats to him for getting his, and have fun facing Hart, Hardy, Fielder, Braun for the next 4 years sucker (and playing in the most homerun friendly park with your 2 pitch fastball relient arsenal)!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto - 209 Posts 11/24/2007 @ 09:30:09 AM
This is what I hate about baseball, the twins were able to offer Hunter a fair contract (3 years 15 million) which is good for a 32 year old. But since teams like the Angels have money to waste they are able to overpay and so Hunter leaves. Same with Santana, since the stupid Giants gave horrible Barry Zito 126 million, Santana is going to want 150 mil, you can't blame the players, got to blame the teams for overpaying and settign the price so high. So it hurts teams like the Twins who do it the right way, by building through the Farm system but are then unable to resign there talented players.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 11/24/2007 @ 12:15:24 PM
I agree with you Joe, however, I have to say that the Midwest has become the Farm league for the Coast teams.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/24/2007 @ 04:54:25 PM
Just for future prosterity: Hunter was offered 3 years 45 million. I suspect Joe meant 15 per year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - many posts 11/25/2007 @ 02:11:36 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 11/24/2007 @ 04:54:25 PM Just for future prosterity: Hunter was offered 3 years 45 million. I suspect Joe meant 15 per year. If that's for posterity, then good info. If it's for prosterity, I would try lycopene instead. Also, Alex Wrote - 11/22/2007 @ 11:13:33 AM For some reason, Hunter has probably been my favorite Twin of the last..well ever really. Like he said though, sometimes it's just time to move on and by all accounts the Twins probably aren't going to contend in the very near future. And as mentioned, at least he left the division. As for the Twins contending, it sounds like you're implying Hunter left because he didn't think the Twins could contend. If that's what you are implying, let me voice my disagreement. I think if he got 91 mil from Minnesota, he wouldn't be leaving. Maybe it's a nice justification for after the fact, but I hardly think he felt the need to leave the Twins for baseball reasons. As for his contention that he didn't feel welcome anymore, well, yeah the Twins don't welcome players they have to overpay. I understand it's gotta be hard for him that they wouldn't offer him as much as other teams. That's probably a bit hurtful from an athlete's perspective. But it's not like the Twins didn't try to keep him and just flat out kicked him out the door. I really liked Torii Hunter playing for the Twins, but I don't mind him leaving if the alternative is going to be giving him 20 million dollars per year.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - No one's gay for Moleman 11/25/2007 @ 02:25:15 AM
Jon Wrote - 11/25/2007 @ 02:11:36 AM Jeremy Wrote - 11/24/2007 @ 04:54:25 PM Just for future prosterity: Hunter was offered 3 years 45 million. I suspect Joe meant 15 per year. If that's for posterity, then good info. If it's for prosterity, I would try lycopene instead. Clearly it's time I stop just blindly accepting what Firefox offers up as a spelling correction. The Twins also offered Johan 80 million, I wonder if they were able to keep a straight face while they played such a prank.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto 11/25/2007 @ 11:19:32 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 11/24/2007 @ 04:54:25 PM Just for future prosterity: Hunter was offered 3 years 45 million. I suspect Joe meant 15 per year. thanks jeremy, thats what I did mean 3 years, 15 million per. The Angels will be the ones stuck paying hunter 20 million per season when he is 38 years old. The twins would be destroyed if they got stuck with huge contracts like that. It sounds like the Twins and Santana are light years apart. it maybe time to trade him for a boatload of prospects while you can.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated 11/25/2007 @ 01:22:40 PM
Jon Wrote - 11/25/2007 @ 02:11:36 AM Alex Wrote - 11/22/2007 @ 11:13:33 AM For some reason, Hunter has probably been my favorite Twin of the last..well ever really. Like he said though, sometimes it's just time to move on and by all accounts the Twins probably aren't going to contend in the very near future. And as mentioned, at least he left the division. As for the Twins contending, it sounds like you're implying Hunter left because he didn't think the Twins could contend. If that's what you are implying, let me voice my disagreement. I think if he got 91 mil from Minnesota, he wouldn't be leaving. Maybe it's a nice justification for after the fact, but I hardly think he felt the need to leave the Twins for baseball reasons. As for his contention that he didn't feel welcome anymore, well, yeah the Twins don't welcome players they have to overpay. I understand it's gotta be hard for him that they wouldn't offer him as much as other teams. That's probably a bit hurtful from an athlete's perspective. But it's not like the Twins didn't try to keep him and just flat out kicked him out the door. I really liked Torii Hunter playing for the Twins, but I don't mind him leaving if the alternative is going to be giving him 20 million dollars per year. Well, that's sort of what I was implying. I guess what I meant was if he really wanted to stay there he could take a little less money to do so, and the more likely the team would be to contend the more likely that he would be willing to accept less money. I agree that if the Twins could've offered the same money he wouldn't leave. On the flip side, the more likely the Twins are to contend the more money they might have been willing to give him. But it seems pretty clear that giving him that kind of money would not have been in the team's best interest in the long run.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - 584 Posts 11/28/2007 @ 11:09:31 AM
I haven't been by in a while....I can speak to what is coming out of NYC in regards to Santana trades. It changes multiple times a day. This morning it was Melky, Hughes and a prospect. Now the last I heard is Melky, Ian Kennedy, Tabata, and a prospect. Cano and Joba Chamberlain are off limits for now. The Mets haven't jumped in yet and the Red Sox have inquired but the Twins want Ellsbury and that's as far as it got. It's actually pretty exciting because I hear something new a couple times a day.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children. 11/28/2007 @ 11:32:41 AM
A Micah sighting! I was starting to worry. Gonna start up on the picks again? How much of what you hear is happening and how much is sports writer conjecture? As sad as it would be to dump Johan I really don't think the Twins have an option. They almost assuredly won't be able to resign him, so it make sense to get what we can for him. Those relatively big name Yankee prospects/players are worth one year of Johan, IMO.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - 3875 Posts 11/28/2007 @ 12:38:10 PM
Micah Wrote - 11/28/2007 @ 11:09:31 AM I haven't been by in a while....I can speak to what is coming out of NYC in regards to Santana trades. It changes multiple times a day. This morning it was Melky, Hughes and a prospect. Now the last I heard is Melky, Ian Kennedy, Tabata, and a prospect. Cano and Joba Chamberlain are off limits for now. The Mets haven't jumped in yet and the Red Sox have inquired but the Twins want Ellsbury and that's as far as it got. It's actually pretty exciting because I hear something new a couple times a day. Considering Joba and Cano are off limits, I don't think a deal gets done (or should get done) without including Hughes.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - 3875 Posts 11/28/2007 @ 04:47:11 PM
This could be big. Sources: Rays, Twins close to Young-Garza swap		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/28/2007 @ 05:39:13 PM
I came here to post this. I don't know how I feel about that. I think in the "potential" category we'd be getting the better end of the deal. Also, maybe being dumped like that would get it through to him that he isn't God's gift to baseball.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - You had me at "Hello" 11/28/2007 @ 10:27:22 PM
I read in the Sun Trib (sucks) that if Santana goes, then its a good bet Nathan will go too. What are we going to be left with?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - Bring down the Beast!!! 11/29/2007 @ 08:25:13 AM
I think Neshek can step into a closer role. And we can either trade Nathan or we get some draft picks if he leaves for free agency. I don't see him being worth the money we would have to pay him anyway. I always kind of liked Bartlett but I think it was a good trade for us, if for nothing else than we actually get to see any offseason activity for once besides the incredibly exciting Sidney Ponson signings. And the Santana offers are being confirmed in reputable sources such as the New York Post, so take that as you will. I would want to see one of Hughes, Chamberlain or Cano in any deal with the Yankees as well.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Super Chocolate Bear 11/29/2007 @ 03:45:23 PM
Twins and Red Sox in talks		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/29/2007 @ 04:02:17 PM
Also, since his importance just skyrocketed, I think it would be good to pass along that I read Francisco Liriano has been told he can go into spring training "as if he'd never been hurt"		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/29/2007 @ 04:10:30 PM
I know it isn't ideal losing Santana, but is anyone else actually kind of excited about the sheer number of blue chip prospects and decent players the Twins might get for one year of Santana?		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Carlos44ec - Tag This 11/29/2007 @ 05:27:33 PM
The word around the water cooler at work is that since we have a new stadium in the works, we are guaranteed at least a decent attendance for each game, so because we won't have to WIN for attendance, we can save money. Anyhow, I think the recent trade involving Bartlett is pretty good. Sure we give up Garza, but wasn't Bartlett our Error King?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 11/29/2007 @ 05:40:59 PM
Would we get anything for a Punto trade?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!? 11/29/2007 @ 05:50:39 PM
A box of junior mints?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto 11/29/2007 @ 07:26:41 PM
I like the move, but I would have rather given up Rincon, than the minor pitcher Morlan. I liked Garza and Bartlett, but getting Delmon Young will give us a great hitter for years to come. The new GM is making the right kind of moves, trying to acquire the right young talent to keep the Twins competitive until the new balpark opens in 2010. Santana must be traded, I would like to see Jacoby Ellisbury and Clay Bucholz, but the Red Sox might not let that happen. In that case trade Santana to the Yankees, because they seem to be mroe desperate to win and might give up more. Keep Nathan till the trade deadline, where his value will skyrocket. Also with Garza gone and soon Santana, is Liriano our new ace? Who else? Baker? Bonser?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - Knuckle Sammich 11/29/2007 @ 10:23:24 PM
washburn was pretty decent		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 11/29/2007 @ 11:40:11 PM
Not to mention you'd be looking to trade a guy that is awesome 1/5 of the games for players that could be a solid upgrade over the Ponson's and Ortiz's of years gone by in 2/5's of the games.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 11/30/2007 @ 10:20:19 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 11/29/2007 @ 05:50:39 PM A box of junior mints? From Class AA Farm Boys		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - Bring down the Beast!!! 11/30/2007 @ 10:20:19 PM
from rotoworld The Yankees have decided to include Phil Hughes in their proposal for Johan Santana, the New York Daily News reports. We think a Hughes-Melky Cabrera package trumps what the Red Sox are offering, though that doesn't necessarily mean the Twins feel the same way. They'll probably ask the Red Sox to counter with Clay Buchholz or Jacoby Ellsbury in their package. Boston, though, wouldn't seem to need Santana as badly as the Yankees do.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - infinity + 1 posts 12/01/2007 @ 06:27:17 AM
To build on Jeremy's earlier comment a bit, I find myself getting excited about the trade possibilities, and then realizing that it would mean no more Santana on the Twins. Can we trade him and then have him just come back in a few days? The NBA does it all the time. Seriously, they do. If we trade Santana, then we all hope Liriano comes back and is amazing, but won't that actually be terrible? Not the fact that he's great, but that we could have had two aces? Remember how amazing we were during that stretch in 2005? As it stands now, we have those two pitchers, Mauer, Morneau, and now Young. Don't you wanna see what could happen?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 12/01/2007 @ 10:51:21 AM
Jon Wrote - 12/01/2007 @ 06:27:17 AM Remember how amazing we were during that stretch in 2005? I think you mean 2006.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 1000000 posts (and counting!) 12/01/2007 @ 11:02:03 AM
Matt Wrote - 12/01/2007 @ 10:51:21 AM Jon Wrote - 12/01/2007 @ 06:27:17 AM Remember how amazing we were during that stretch in 2005? I think you mean 2006. Actually, I meant 2005, as in, "remember how amazing we were during that stretch in 2005? Not very amazing! We missed the playoffs! I'd like not to go back to that time and instead relive the good times such as the implied good season of 2006."		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose 12/05/2007 @ 01:14:52 PM
This is why it's probably not a bad idea for the Twins to trade/release stars/money for prospects at the moment. Although I did read something on ESPN yesterday that basically said their owner is cheap. I don't think I ever realized he was a billionaire that refuses to spend too much for the team and cajoled the taxpayers into buying a stadium. If I was a billionaire and owned my own team and Hunter or Santana was at least willing to sign for a reasonable though large contract it'd get done. I guess I always assumed the team/owner didn't have a giant pile of money stashed away and just refused to use it. Anyway,		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 12/06/2007 @ 01:11:52 PM
Does anyone else think the Dodgers overpaid for Jones?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL 12/09/2007 @ 11:21:03 AM
Alex Wrote - 12/06/2007 @ 01:11:52 PM Does anyone else think the Dodgers overpaid for Jones? Yeah, but since the contract is only 2 years, its a better deal than having to pay the same money to T-Hunt for 5.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 12/09/2007 @ 11:23:01 AM
Matt Wrote - 12/09/2007 @ 11:21:03 AM Alex Wrote - 12/06/2007 @ 01:11:52 PM Does anyone else think the Dodgers overpaid for Jones? Yeah, but since the contract is only 2 years, its a better deal than having to pay the same money to T-Hunt for 5. I suppose their division is pretty wide open too, so a move like this could put them on top, if they can ever stay healthy.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - That hypocrite smokes two packs a day. 01/29/2008 @ 06:44:41 PM
Santana to the Mets for ... center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - Tag This 01/29/2008 @ 07:03:52 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-mets-twins-santanatrade&prov=ap&type=lgns :-(		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Carlos44ec perfected this 2 times, last at 01/29/2008 7:04:16 pm

	Sarah - So's your face 01/29/2008 @ 07:14:09 PM
no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i just saw it on espn.com. They say it's the 4th best deal they could've gotten.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 01/29/2008 @ 08:47:59 PM
The friggin Mets? Santana himself should be pissed off. I miss Santana already.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Carlos44ec messed with this at 01/29/2008 8:48:09 pm

	PackOne - You analyze me. Tend to despise me. You laugh when I stumble and fall. 01/29/2008 @ 08:57:12 PM
There is always Boof.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - Ombudsman 01/29/2008 @ 10:17:09 PM
This deal sucks for the Twins.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9475 Posts 01/29/2008 @ 10:46:39 PM
Indeed it does. I wanted a deal to happen because the names being tossed around were just too big for one year of Santana. Now, as Carl said, I miss him already.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - many posts 01/30/2008 @ 06:16:59 AM
It's weird because I'm not happy, but right now it's mostly just an intellectual sadness or disappointment or something. Maybe it's because I don't get that up or down emotionally about this kind of thing but maybe it's just that it hasn't sunk in yet. As I was telling matt while we briefly discussed this trade, there are only two ways this trade won't really aggravate me. Scenario #1, the Twins win the World Series. Scenario #2, the Twins finish woefully under .500 (I'm thinking at least 25 games). Anything else will basically just leave room for "Look at the difference Santana could have made." I mean, losing at any point in the postseason would be crushing, but can you imagine losing knowing that Santana could have been there? And the same logic holds true for any finish ranging down to the point where they are remotely in the playoff neighborhood, because Santana could easily be worth that many wins. Granted, these new players might contribute this coming year, which would make it harder to measure how much better we could have been with Santana. Of course, they also could contribute nothing. (I mean literally nothing. Though a figurative nothing might be more likely. In a segment with KFAN, Aaron Gleeman used the word "maybe" in regard to Humber and Mulvey being ready for the bigs and said they wouldn't be impact players. On his website, Gleeman projects Mulvey to be ready by the all-star break. He also basically said Gomez wasn't ready to be an above average starter and expressed concern the Twins would be pushing him into a spot in the bigs that he isn't ready for. The last pitcher, Guerra, isn't at all ready.) If nothing is what we get this season, that means that the difference between Santana and our #5 pitcher in 2008 will be the margin for how much better we could have been, unless we now go out and improve our staff in a way we wouldn't have otherwise. (How likely is it that we can actually upgrade a significan't amount anyway? I'm actually half asking and half stating that I think we have little chance of doing that. I mean, who are we going to sign? Ponson? Ortiz?) To summarize what was probably way too wordy and relatively pointless, the marginal loss for 2008 might be big. Anyway, here's to hoping this will at least be good for us in the long run. But in the short run, the Twins just got about 25% less hunky. By the way, Sportscenter was doing a segment last night where the subject was something like "Is there any way to defend Randy Moss?" I thought it was sadly fitting. Maybe Carlos Gomez can rent Napoleon Harris' old apartment. If you haven't passed out from boredom and want completely obscure info, keep reading. Phil Humber pitched on the 2003 college champs, the Rice Owls. A certain long-winded nutcan writer attended one game of that College World Series, though it was between South Carolina and LSU. Going 1-4 in that game, with 1 RBI and 1R for the victorious Gamecocks, was third baseman Brian Buscher. Now for the ridiculously obscure info. The wikipedia page for that year's college world series has an error in the scoreboard for that game. I wanted to change it, but they scared me off with their IP address talk.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.
Jon screwed with this 8 times, last at 01/30/2008 6:31:38 am

	jthompto 01/30/2008 @ 08:03:14 AM
Definately not happy. The Twins GM took a gamble and kept hoping the sox and yanks would up the anty and give him that deal he wanted, that never happend, so now he got stuck with the mets offer. The reason I don't like this deal is that none of these prospects have an extremly high upside, at least with the yankees package you were getting Phil Hughs and with the Red Sox either Ellisbury or Lester. Lets just hope the Twins know something we don't, the Twins finished under 500 last season with Santana, now the rotation has a lot of questions. Silva is gone, Garza is gone as well. Postitives for the deal: Santana is in the NL, twins will never face him and lets face it, the Twins would have had a hard time competing with the Indians and Tigers even with Santana this season. Its going to take a 2006 like miracle season again.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - "If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style." 01/30/2008 @ 08:15:08 AM
Good team, bad team- I'll still be going to the games. We're not Cubs fans yet, but it could get that bad before it gets better. I've also heard talk radio around here alluding to the fact that the Twins might be saving up for some excellent acquisitions in -09 or -10 for a great year around the new stadium opening. I just don't like to wait that long.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 01/30/2008 @ 01:14:35 PM
Cubs fans? Why would you ever make that comparison? Great point by jthompto about moving Santana to the NL. I had the same thought while reading Jon's post. It possible they could've gotten a better deal from the Red Sox or Yankees, but I'm not convinced the Yankees were ever actually serious about pulling the trigger and its debatable as to who exactly the Red Sox would've pulled the trigger on as well. And in either case they would've been giving one of the best pitchers to a team that they would be fairly likely to play in the postseason if they make it that far. They could've gone for broke this year, but then Santana would've walked and could've possibly joined an AL team still. In my non-Twins fans eyes, the only better outcomes would be to make him a real offer so that he stays (which if I were owner I definitely would've done if this is all I could trade him for) or maybe they could've pulled off this trade sooner with the Mets and gotten a little more from them while the hype was high. I suspect it will sink it more on opening day when he isn't on the mound.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 01/30/2008 @ 02:38:24 PM
What I meant by "we are not Cubs fans yet" was that we are not a team that has truly gotten used to having a losing team. Let's face it, the Cubs suck, and almost always have. The Twins haven't, and we haven't yet given up hope of a good team/season.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 01/30/2008 @ 07:13:59 PM
Carlos44ec Wrote - 01/30/2008 @ 02:38:24 PM What I meant by "we are not Cubs fans yet" was that we are not a team that has truly gotten used to having a losing team. Let's face it, the Cubs suck, and almost always have. The Twins haven't, and we haven't yet given up hope of a good team/season. 3 cheers for Twins fans for not giving up on a team that has been relatively good? Way to stick with it after 1 losing season in a row!		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.

	jthompto - 209 Posts 01/31/2008 @ 05:30:33 PM
I will admit, I lost track of the Twins from 1994-2000. But having the team be competitive year after year is nice.I don't think that the Twins are about to enter the kind of spunk there spent the late 90s in though. After all we still have Mauer, Morneau and Cuddy to build around. As for the Cubs Fans comparison, 16 plus years since the last title for the Twins, 100 for the cubs. So I think ill be alright.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4605 Posts 03/01/2008 @ 01:58:28 PM
The Twins game is on ESPN on Wednesday against the evil empire. I'm getting excited for the season even though we have entirely different team.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.