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Mom Upset Over Son being forced to Recite Pledge of Allegiance in Spanish

Apparently the very act of knowing the Pledge of Allegiance in Spanish might push a kid over the edge to become a full fledged Mexican. Or, maybe if you know the Pledge in Spanish you will lose your citizenship. Maybe that's what she's worried about.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - No one's gay for Moleman
11/04/2010 @ 02:23:19 PM
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I'm not sure the Pledge is what I'd go with, just for practical purposes. Something familiar makes sense, but something familiar in a familiar tone/dialect would probably make more sense. I'm not sure where knowing the translation of "Allegiance", "Republic", and "Indivisible" would have future application. (Though, it's not like this was the one and only assignment where at the and of it the teacher would dust his/her hands and declare them fluent Spanish speakers.)

That said, English is not the official language, and even if it were this would still be a very stupid thing to get upset over.
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Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 11/04/2010 2:27:58 pm
scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
11/04/2010 @ 02:26:49 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:23:19 PM
I'm not sure where knowing the translation of "Allegiance", "Republic", and "Indivisible" would have future application.


My response in a Colbert-esque manner: unless you were then moved to change your allegiance to the Flag of Mexico (with an overly-emphasized H sound)
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Scott perfected this at 11/04/2010 2:32:01 pm
thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
11/04/2010 @ 02:42:51 PM
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I thought Democrats were opposed to the forced recitation of the Pledge in any language.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
11/04/2010 @ 02:44:48 PM
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Only the Dems that hate America. I love this country.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
11/04/2010 @ 02:51:49 PM
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Also, though, it's in the "wanting to say the pledge" that you truly express your feelings for the country. Forcing someone to do anything is no measure of such devotion.
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matt.jpgMatt - Ombudsman
11/04/2010 @ 02:59:15 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:23:19 PM
I'm not sure the Pledge is what I'd go with, just for practical purposes. Something familiar makes sense, but something familiar in a familiar tone/dialect would probably make more sense. I'm not sure where knowing the translation of "Allegiance", "Republic", and "Indivisible" would have future application. (Though, it's not like this was the one and only assignment where at the and of it the teacher would dust his/her hands and declare them fluent Spanish speakers.)

That said, English is not the official language, and even if it were this would still be a very stupid thing to get upset over.


I would say it's a minor thing to get upset over, not necessarily a stupid thing. Things like the National Anthem and the Pledge can take on kind of a ritualistic quality above just the words spoken. There are Catholics who believe that mass should only be done in Latin. As a non-Catholic it may seem trivial to me, but I can kind of understand where they are coming from, and I think the Pledge situation is similar.

This is not to say that I agree with the mother 100%, but I also don't think this automatically makes her some Mexican hating bigot.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
11/04/2010 @ 03:05:55 PM
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Of course, now that mass isn't said in Latin, Catholics have to make up reasons why they don't pay attention to the homilies and the rituals. Maybe taking something like the Pledge and being forced to look at each word in order to find the spanish equivalent would actually make it more meaningful to the kid. As a Catholic (or former Catholic), after the 700th time you recite a prayer, you start doing it more from habit and eventually you have no idea what you are actually saying.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/04/2010 @ 07:02:20 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 03:05:55 PM
Of course, now that mass isn't said in Latin, Catholics have to make up reasons why they don't pay attention to the homilies and the rituals. Maybe taking something like the Pledge and being forced to look at each word in order to find the spanish equivalent would actually make it more meaningful to the kid. As a Catholic (or former Catholic), after the 700th time you recite a prayer, you start doing it more from habit and eventually you have no idea what you are actually saying.



Agreed. In fact there's murmurings of stopping the almost mandatory National Anthem at sporting events and whatnot and though most people will leap to the "well of course, it's because people hate america!" argument, it really started because it's supposed to be meaningful, so doing it to the point where people are half just going through the motions is bad.
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Jeremy edited this at 11/04/2010 7:03:40 pm
matt.jpgMatt - Ombudsman
11/04/2010 @ 10:35:48 PM
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So making sure people never sing it makes it more meaningful? The better way to solve that problem, in my opinion, is to stop bringing in people to sing the Anthem all the time. Play a recording (or have a band do it live) of the instrumentals and encourage the crowd to sing along. That way, the crowd is involved and they may pay more attention to the words/meaning.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
11/05/2010 @ 07:46:02 AM
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I say, and this is not in anyway an unpatriotic sentiment, that we change the National Anthem to a song that is simply easier to sing. The Star Spangled Banner ranges three octaves. That can be difficult even for a trained singer, let alone some guy in the crowd that is worried about embarrasing himself when his voice cracks during "rockets red glare".

Otherwise, I say mix it up a bit. Play/sing other patriotic songs in it's place sometimes. Sing God Bless America, or America The Beautiful. Heck, sing Horse With No Name for all I care (by the band America).

This leads me to another thought, and again, this is not at all a knock on America. It occurs to me that our national anthem actually says nothing about the country in which we live. It is essentially a tribute to the flag, and I suppose about a singular moment that made it what it is and what it means. Yet when you look at other national anthems for other countries, the songs are about the country and how great their country is. God Bless America and America The Beautiful, in my opinion, produce greater sentiments about our country then does the star spangled banner.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
11/05/2010 @ 09:29:38 AM
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Matt Wrote - Yesterday @ 10:35:48 PM
So making sure people never sing it makes it more meaningful? The better way to solve that problem, in my opinion, is to stop bringing in people to sing the Anthem all the time. Play a recording (or have a band do it live) of the instrumentals and encourage the crowd to sing along. That way, the crowd is involved and they may pay more attention to the words/meaning.


I don't think anyone said the word "never," but if it was almost never played, it would almost certainly be special when it was. Whether that matters or not could be debated, but I think that fact is fairly obvious.

The prayer that I always got a kick out of was the Lord's Prayer. It's probably the most famous and most repeated (And as Scott said often void of any emotion or thought), despite the fact that the whole point of that passage is Jesus, if I may modernize, was saying "Don't pray the same thing over and over because that defeats the purpose, just wing something from the heart such as...."
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
11/05/2010 @ 07:36:30 PM
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Matthew 6:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%206:7&version=NIV

NKJV - And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
NIV - And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
NASB - And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

I'll assume that your fact about the point results from the use of the word "repetitions" in the King James version. But the preceding word, "vain", is kind of important in this passage. The other translations clarify that it's not so much that you can't repeat the same prayer, but that it's how you pray and not how long your prayer is that's important.

My reference Bible links this to 1 Kings 18:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20kings%2018:26&version=NIV

"So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made."

Not that I disagree that sometimes people space out and say it without thinking about it, at which point it does become vain repetition. Helps to read it instead of recite it.
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Alex messed with this at 11/05/2010 7:36:57 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
11/05/2010 @ 08:47:12 PM
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I'm not sure "clarify" is the right word, since that implies one isn't right, and one is, and we really don't know which is. Either way you could take the spirit of his instructions there as a whole as "Pray alone and, ideally, from the heart" so part of me always found the weekly gathering and emotionless recitation of that, and really everything else for that matter, to be amusing.

Those people will be waiting for Baal for a long time, because I've whooped his ass about 200 times. Then again...I guess that means he just comes right back to life. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal! emoticon
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Jeremy screwed with this at 11/05/2010 8:47:33 pm
images.jpgcraig - Damn it! I'm not lurking. Why does it say that?
11/05/2010 @ 10:06:08 PM
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Ok... maybe all moms aren't very smart. Move along, nothing to see here.
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