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Added By: Carlos44ec
Added on: 10/19/2009 @ 10:05:35 AM
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Fix your phone, Jerm

You were complaining/mentioned a crappy battery life- I found this while trying to figure out if I liked the Pre or the Hero better.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Pie Racist
10/19/2009 @ 10:35:17 AM
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Yeah, I inadvertently fixed my problem right away by downloading a better SMS App than the included one. WebOS (on the Palm Pre) is cool, but the apps are really sparse.

Android is definitely the way to go. You should be deciding between the HTC Hero and the (upcoming) Samsung Moment. I think I might return the Hero and get the Moment, because I think the hardware keyboard is worth giving up HTC Sense, and Android 2.0 is coming out shortly and will look better anyway. I haven't officially decided though.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 10/19/2009 12:36:26 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
10/19/2009 @ 10:58:19 AM
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just curious- whoever gave jeremy a zero nut needs to follow through and give their opinion. I'd like your input too.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i
10/19/2009 @ 12:36:56 PM
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I doubt there was any actual reason. Craig likes to go through the site giving me zeros.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
10/23/2009 @ 09:36:42 PM
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I was talking with the Sprint kiosk kid today, going over the differences between the hero and the moment. Aparently I know more about them than he does. Differences are fairly interesting. From the Hero to the Mmt, you go from about 600 mhz to 800. the camera pixels go from 5 to 3.2, but it's a slider and touchscreen, which I like. I thought maybe the camera downgrade would bother me, and although I don't take much for pictures with my 3.2 now, 5 mp would be kinda nice and maybe I'd use it more.

If those are the only real differences, I think I'll wait until Nov 1 and check them out side by side.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - The girls all know he's "way cool" Jr.
10/24/2009 @ 06:23:01 PM
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I randomly gave Jeremy 5 nuts to balance it out.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/04/2009 @ 12:05:12 PM
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Update? You should have had your new new phone a couple of days now.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist
11/04/2009 @ 12:23:29 PM
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Still haven't decided, I have a few days yet. The Hero is a touchscreen, by the way. It's actually a multitouch. (pinch to zoom in and out on webpages, and all that, which you actually don't use much.)

The camera on the moment has a flash, and the hero does not.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
11/04/2009 @ 08:03:03 PM
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I was going to come here and bitch about no nutcan Thanksgiving theme, but I see you have done your job. That being said, I have to upgrade my AT&T phone. What is my best smartphone option. I have had a blackberry but am open to suggestions. No, switching carriers is not an option.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
11/04/2009 @ 09:37:24 PM
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An iPhone?
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - Bring down the Beast!!!
11/04/2009 @ 09:49:12 PM
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iPhone is the correct answer.
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
11/04/2009 @ 09:53:07 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 01:23:29 PM
Still haven't decided, I have a few days yet. The Hero is a touchscreen, by the way. It's actually a multitouch. (pinch to zoom in and out on webpages, and all that, which you actually don't use much.)

The camera on the moment has a flash, and the hero does not.


I use the zoom in and out feature on my iphone constantly, almost all the time when on the web on my phone.
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flower .jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
11/05/2009 @ 08:55:30 AM
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Let's say I don't want to deal with an iPhone, then what? Is Blackberry my only real choice?
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
11/05/2009 @ 09:42:23 AM
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PackOne Wrote - Today @ 09:55:30 AM


Let's say I don't want to deal with an iPhone, then what? Is Blackberry my only real choice?


If you don't want an iphone, why are you staying with AT&T? The only reason I know of that people are with AT&T is for the iPhone. Verizon has way better service, coverage, internet speed, etc.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
11/05/2009 @ 09:47:49 AM
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Micah Wrote - Yesterday @ 09:53:07 PM
Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 12:23:29 PM
Still haven't decided, I have a few days yet. The Hero is a touchscreen, by the way. It's actually a multitouch. (pinch to zoom in and out on webpages, and all that, which you actually don't use much.)

The camera on the moment has a flash, and the hero does not.


I use the zoom in and out feature on my iphone constantly, almost all the time when on the web on my phone.


The hero wraps/renders the text on the page to fit to your zoom level, which is does a pretty good job of determining when you load a page, so you don't have to zoom in and out a whole lot with it.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/05/2009 @ 09:50:15 AM
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Micah Wrote - Today @ 09:42:23 AM
PackOne Wrote - Today @ 08:55:30 AM


Let's say I don't want to deal with an iPhone, then what? Is Blackberry my only real choice?


If you don't want an iphone, why are you staying with AT&T? The only reason I know of that people are with AT&T is for the iPhone. Verizon has way better service, coverage, internet speed, etc.


Yeah, from what I understand the iPhone is the only reason to put up with AT&T, and you might actually get 3g in your area now. If AT&T ever lost exclusivity with apple here in the US, I wouldn't advise hanging on to their stock.
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/15/2009 @ 04:00:59 PM
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So I'm in the final stages of chosing Hero or Moment. I went to BBY to check on the devices side-by-side, and I have to say I think I like the Hero better for size. I don't need the slide keyboard, and the flash is not that important to me- and the camera is kinda cool.

Now that I know which phone I want, I have to decide whether or not I want to upgrade at all, and then figure out what I want to do with my Treo 800w...
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - So's your face
11/15/2009 @ 04:11:06 PM
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I don't know how serious Jeremy is, but he's been complaining that his phone is a pile o' shite... he could probably tell you more, but maybe that'll influence you. I still like my Pre if that helps.
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/15/2009 @ 04:15:29 PM
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your pre sucks. where's your slot for additional memory?

edit- half kidding, i looked at that one briefly.
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Carlos44ec perfected this at 11/15/2009 4:15:51 pm
sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
11/15/2009 @ 04:19:03 PM
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Well that's the big disadvantage, plus there aren't a lot of apps out there either. But, for what I want a phone to do, it does it all pretty well.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/15/2009 @ 04:21:29 PM
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I understand. Meagen wants a phone that- get this- makes phone calls! She'd want text and perhaps a web browser capability from time to time- but mainly calling. Strange girl...
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sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
11/15/2009 @ 04:25:15 PM
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Indeed. Although that's a good portion of what I use it for. I like listening to music through Pandora, and I do have a couple of movies on my phone as well. You can download books too, which is fun as well. Ok, so yea I do use it for a lot more than calling and texting.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Pie Racist
11/15/2009 @ 07:03:59 PM
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Sarah Wrote - Today @ 04:11:06 PM
I don't know how serious Jeremy is, but he's been complaining that his phone is a pile o' shite... he could probably tell you more, but maybe that'll influence you. I still like my Pre if that helps.


Yeah, the moment probably has some issues, but they'll probably be fewer given it runs stock android. At any rate, I can't stress enough what a frustrating experience the Hero has been thus far. It definitely has potential, and HTC sense would be a nice upgrade to the stock android, but first of all there are skinning/home screen apps available, if you want something fancier looking on the moment, and secondly, almost everything HTC touched they turned to crap.

First and foremost, I end up calling everyone back, because my phone doesn't start ringing until the 2 or 3 ring on the caller's end, and you can't answer it right away because it freaks out and lag spikes. This morning my dad called, the phone wouldn't answer, he left a voice mail, at which point the phone proceeded to alert me about 4-5 voicemails it hadn't mentioned before, stretching back to one from Matt the day of the steelers game wondering if I was coming or not (I was wishy washy early on, then took a turn for the worse), which I was bed ridden for and never more than 6 inches from my phone, which rings so loud it would wake the dead. So, it took a month for it to alert me of voicemail for a call it skipped alerting me of in the first place.

This is just a tip of the ice burg, and almost everything points to a horrible approach by htc and makes me leery for the future. The calendar widget tells you events 2 days ahead are happening tomorrow. The front and center "trademark" time/weather widget shows the wrong time to people who live where DST is not observed (Which would be a big oversight on it's own, but it points to a bigger problem, because it means this widget is using bandwidth and resources to figure out the time on its own, when the phone knows the time.) There's the weather on the afore mentioned widget (well, sometimes, it disappears alot), a dedicated weather widget, and a weather app. They're supposed to auto update, but they are often half a day behind, and show 3 different weather states at any given time. (Which again, means HTC wrote 3 things to display weather that also, check last update, download, parse, AND display the data. To the non programmers out there, this is very bad, you're never supposed to reinvent the wheel. They should have made and perfected one application that runs in the background whose only job is to check the weather every half hour, or when told, and store it somewhere on the phone. Then, the programs to display it only do that, display what they're told.)

HTC added a headphone jack, but apparently never actually tried it because it plays mono, unless you pull it in and out and get it to make a mistake and think it's a headset, then you get stereo.

Long story short, there are going to be problems with any new phone, but the problems, which I barely scratched the surface of, on the Hero are things that are obvious to anyone making a passing glance at it, let alone whose job it is the thoroughly vet.

I feel like I'm alpha/beta testing a prototype for sprint some days.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - www.digi.com
11/16/2009 @ 07:36:23 AM
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I'm glad I got lazy and felt like not going to BBY last night. Do they acknowledge any of these faults? Have you contacted them on fixes, upgrades, etc? I would think one would be coming down the pipe once they release the full (non-beta) version!

Perhaps I should check out the Moment; I have 30 days to try it out, I could always switch...
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/16/2009 @ 01:37:10 PM
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There's a Hero section on the Sprint forums and there are numerous threads about the issues, and one sort of semi official bug thread.

They are aware of the issues as sprint employees correspond with people. They don't acknowledge anything specific, because if you own up to a bug a competitor can use it against you and pretend they have never had an issue. (I'm looking at you, smug mac guy) One of the other more frustrating things is that it's Sprint's policy to not give any release dates, which makes sense to an extent, because software is sort of like building a house, all the dates in the world only matter in-so-far-as maybe when you're getting closer to it you start putting in some OT, but ultimately it's done when it's done, and promising a date only serves to a) make people mad when it's missed, which they always are because they're universally determined by someone who's not basing the date on any knowledge of the problem. (CIO FTW!) b) rushing a bug fix makes no sense because rushing something was probably the big cause of problems in the first place, and you don't want to cause a big problem correcting a minor one.

That said, it would be nice to have some indication of when we can expect something. And, there's no reason I see that these problems can't be corrected in patch form, rather than a "This tiny simple fix can't be released to the public until everything is done because it's an all or nothing update" form. We've been told "a few weeks" which could mean 3 to what?, 6?, 8? They are also working on getting sense to work with Android 2.0, so I'm leery about that because while they might be double checking to make sure they have our problems solved, it's clear they can't write software for shit there, and not just because android is new to them.

HTC Sync is a generic hot sync program they make their phones work with so your contacts and stuff are backed up. (More or less worthless, as Google's cloud keeps your phone up to date/backed up. Add a contact to your gmail account and it's in your phone, and vise versa.) I installed it just to see what it did and it leaked memory so badly that every computer I installed it on had so few resources a few hours later they didn't have enough free ram to restart.

My 30 days are up, but I think I'd go with the Moment, if I were you. If Hero's problems get fixed you can always switch pretty painlessly.
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Jeremy edited this at 11/16/2009 5:34:51 pm
face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/16/2009 @ 02:08:50 PM
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If the Moment is purely Android- even with Samsung's shell over top of it- it sounds like the one I'd get. I just don't like how it's bigger than the Treo I have now- I was looking forward to a smaller phone with a bigger screen!

Thanks for your help, I've stumped many an ignorant cellphone salesman in the past month or so!
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
11/16/2009 @ 05:38:13 PM
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Plus the hardware keyboard on the moment opens up the Wolfenstien, Doom, and Quake apps to you, and would make the nintendo emulator more playable. (And open up the SNES and Sega emulators too.) The hero only has 2 assignable buttons.
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Jeremy messed with this at 11/16/2009 5:38:25 pm
face.bmpCarlos44ec - Tag This
11/16/2009 @ 08:03:11 PM
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sold!
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/18/2009 @ 12:08:20 PM
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one thing I have read about android phones is that yes, the devices can run emulators, but they don't mention what format these games need to be in, and whether you're able to use the standard ones you'll find online. What have you found so far?

Going in for a Moment test-drive tonight- as BBY only displays the nonworking model.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
11/18/2009 @ 12:14:15 PM
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Yes. For the game console ones you'd use the usual roms you'd fine online.

For the pc games I mentioned, they just are that game.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/19/2009 @ 12:27:33 PM
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best.phone.ever.!.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
11/19/2009 @ 12:32:30 PM
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Did u get the moment?
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - "Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else."
11/19/2009 @ 10:51:49 PM
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Samsung Moment. Awesome!
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/19/2009 @ 11:37:14 PM
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That's cool. Of course the day you get that they release a patch that fixes a lot of issues and adds a few new features.

Of course in typical HTC fashion they added a bug where people lose the ability to redownload apps they purchased.
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - ...and Bob's your Uncle!
11/20/2009 @ 10:04:31 AM
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do the fixes actually fix the things that we've addressed as unacceptable?

And FYI on the DOOM app- the key assignment is so messed up it makes it unplayable. Wish I could re-design it.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Pie Racist
11/22/2009 @ 09:34:40 PM
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Astrid - Task Manger
Barcode Scanner - You can scan QR bar codes off the internet that then perform actions. So someone could say "open this page on your phone." or, in this case "Install this app"
eBuddy - A nice multi-client IM program.
Facebook - Worth getting, but the mobile facebook site is pretty nice as well.
Locale - You can set up rules based on times or locations so you phone can detect you're at work and turn on vibrate only and change your background from the naked girl to something more work related.
Nesoid - Nintendo Emulator
Pandora - Internet Radio
Phonalyzr - Makes graphs out of your call history, in case you ever need to know you make most of your calls on wednesdays, but use the most minutes on Fridays. Nice to have so when my mom says we never talk I can show her how her bar is 6 times the length of anyone else's.
PlaysVideo - Durrr
PureRSS - Nice simple RSS program, so you can be notified of nutcan postings.
Shazam - Tells you what song is currently playing. Fairly useless but cool because it seems to work like magic.
ShopSavvy - Scan a barcode in a store and it will tell you what other places are charging for it.

There are a lot of them, so I don't know what is the best, but a task killer isn't a bad idea, since you're allowed to do more than one thing, unlike some suckers with a certain popular phone, and sometimes you forget you have 20 apps running in the background.

A lot of the apps I mention can be found here:
http://androinica.com/2009/08/31/50-best-android-apps-lifestyle-and-productivity-apps-1-15/

Edit: I'm not sure what to recommend for weather apps and contacts managers and all that because HTC provided a whole bunch of widgets.
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Jeremy perfected this 2 times, last at 11/22/2009 9:40:54 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
11/24/2009 @ 01:33:21 PM
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I just downloaded PhoneFlicks and it seems to do a really nice job with letting you screw around with your netflix account.
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flower .jpgPackOne - Yeah, and you don't stop, 'caus its 1-8-7 on a ...
11/24/2009 @ 02:35:52 PM
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I went with the iPhone. 99 bucks. the thing is amazing compared to my Blackberry. I hated that phone.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - I hate our freedoms
11/24/2009 @ 04:01:01 PM
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So Sarah sent me a text the other day I didn't get, which is one of the reported issues. This might explain why Matt and Jon only respond to me one out of every 20 texts, as opposed to their usual rate of ignoring 75% of my questions.

Matt
Last Texts I sent (sent to Matt and Jon) - We just practically ran into Joe Mauer. - and I have a Twins hat and sweatshirt on - probably assumes we're stalking. (Which is funny, because we then saw him again 90 minutes later.) No response.

Last Text Received - (11/15) K I'm on my way (Re:Coming over for MNF)

Jon
Last Text Received - I really wish these sores would go away.
Last Real Text Received - Cant tell, looks ok on sideline (Re:Sidney Rice limping off)

Unresponded to texts I sent - 1) 11/22 Where did you guys end up watching the game. 2) 11/23 What days off do you have now? Fri/Sat?


Let me know if you guys didn't get those texts and/or if you replied and I didn't get it.
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 04:07:32 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 04:01:01 PM


Jon
Last Text Received - I really wish these sores would go away.
Last Real Text Received - Cant tell, looks ok on sideline (Re:Sidney Rice limping off)

Unresponded to texts I sent - 1) 11/22 Where did you guys end up watching the game. 2) 11/23 What days off do you have now? Fri/Sat?


Let me know if you guys didn't get those texts and/or if you replied and I didn't get it.


I responded to #2. The others I did not respond to anyway.

I don't always respond because it takes me too long/I'm at work/etc. Also, sometimes when I do respond, it doesn't go through because my memory is low (I often don't delete my texts until I need space) and then instead of letting me delete stuff and click send again, it just erases what I spent 2 or 3 minutes typing out, at which point I'm too frustrated to type it out again.
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 04:58:32 AM
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By the way, I know I'm like generations behind regarding cell phones and my issues with those, but I'm gonna do a little venting of my own.

OK, so I don't have any sort of smartphone or data plan or anything like that. I think they're cool and everything, but not necessary for me and since the plan I'm on is relatively dirt cheap and is more than adequate, I'm fine with not upgrading at the moment.

So, I've had the ubiquitous Motorola Razr for almost exactly 3 years now and it's worked great. I think 3 years is like 90 in phone years, but I didn't even upgrade when I could because other people's new phones break down so often I just figured I'd ride this one out since I'd never had a problem with it.

Since I had accumulated lots of photos and other info over the years, I bought a nice little software package called Motorola Phone Tools (MPT) which let me back everything up and save all my pictures and contacts and texts and things in case my phone died suddenly, and plus it's just nice to be able to transfer things back and forth with the comp. I did that this summer. I figured when I'd do an upgrade, I'd go with the latest razr, or maybe switch to something with a qwerty, which, if all other factors were equal, I'd maybe choose motorola since I could keep using the software and easily load my contacts onto my new phone.

Well, the phone is still working ok, but I can tell it's starting to go. The screen is doing some funny things, but it's mostly just cosmetic at this point. Meanwhile though, my carrier, Alltel merges with/gets bought out by Verizon. So now I'm a verizon customer. I check their website and go into their store and it turns out they don't even carry the razr line anymore, or really anything even comparable that I can see. Turns out, they never really did have the regular version of it because they sold their special verizon razrs which were made extra sucky by the company so that you couldn't use programs like Phone Tools on them (apparently because that would make it tougher for them to sell you their ringtones since MPT can also be used to make your own.)

So, fine. Whatever. I'll upgrade to something with qwerty anyway since that's what I've been wanting for a while. Maybe I can respond to Jeremy's texts now. But from what I'm reading, even if I find a new phone they carry that I like, even if it's Motorola, it still won't work with MPT except for the contacts feature. Which is a nice feature, except I'm pretty sure verizon already offers free web storage of your contacts anyway. So basically I have this software that should work for transferring pictures and whatnot with a bajillion different phones on the market, only Verizon is so concerned about ringtones or something that they only sell you jacked up phones with their own special touch and, frankly, an interface that sucks compared to what standard motorola phones come with (and other brands I assume.)

And it's not like I care so much about the money I spent on MPT. It didn't break the bank, really, but I assumed there would be a decent chance I would be able to get some more use out of it. And the really stupid thing is that I don't give two craps about ringtones. My phone is always on Vibrate. I use one stock ringtone for an alarm and another for when the phone is charging and vibrate is disabled. I would never buy a ringtone from Verizon and I wouldn't ever NOT buy one just because I had MPT. It's a complete non issue for me. But just because verizon can't stand by while all the tweens transfer :20 of the latest Akon track, that they bought on their own, onto their phone without paying Verizon for the privilege, I can't transfer a picture or two onto my computer without running a 20 step hack/workaround everytime I hook it up.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 09:48:04 AM
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So get something that's open source, and more than just a phone, like Droid, which by all accounts appears to be a hell of a phone. People say they don't need data plans or anything fancy, until they get them. Not all that long ago we all thought texting was stupid, and now we do it all the time (and apparently I don't get half of them.)

Growing up we didn't get an answering machine for a really long time. My mom's reasoning was "No one calls us when we're not home." I feel like the same type of logic gets said a lot in regards to dataplans/smart phones. How would you know you wouldn't use it if you've never had one to use?

It's really just like the cell phone itself. Very few of us need one, but if you have one for a month you'll never not have one again. It's almost like a lifestyle change, you just get used to being able to talk to anyone no matter where you are, and the fact that you used to pull off the road and find a payphone in a pinch will seem like some bizarre concept from 1965. Though it's not quite as dramatic, the same thing is true of an internet connected phone.

Now, I'd be lying if I said I spent 4 hours a day surfing the internet on my phone, and though Sprint's Everything Data is a great deal by cell phone plan standard, it's still a lot. However, we aren't talking like the original WML days where there were 15 sites I could get on my little flip phone at 2bps if I wanted to devote 5 minutes to finding out the Twins score. The phone is always connected and updating things like news/weather/email etc. It's a passive usage as much as it is something to "do" with it now. (And having a video/music player, phone, and Garmin in your pocket is a good thing)

Edit: Also, you have the only custom ring tone on my phone, I hope you feel special.
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Jeremy messed with this at 11/25/2009 9:51:07 am
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 11:17:15 AM
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connectivity over cellular networks (like mine) are only offering SMS capabilities after much discussion and caution.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 11:17:27 AM
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This is why a lot of companies that provide connectivity
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 11:17:37 AM
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For the Record, SMS, or text messaging, is renowned for dropping messages or even delivering them out of context/ order. This
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - ...and Bob's your Uncle!
11/25/2009 @ 11:18:27 AM
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Get my point? I thought that would be a cool (nerd!) way to make the point.

"For the Record, SMS, or text messaging, is renowned for dropping messages or even delivering them out of context/ order. This is why a lot of companies that provide connectivity over cellular networks (like mine) are only offering SMS capabilities after much discussion and caution."
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 11:43:06 AM
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SMS is, without a doubt, crap. It's virtually impossible to have a conversation that way, but people noticed the problem increased after they moved to the Hero, of course it could be the same issue they always had, except now they were looking for problems.

A lot of the time, especially with Matt it seems, our messages don't actually get to him for like 13 hours.
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - You had me at "Hello"
11/25/2009 @ 11:49:32 AM
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Like any other wireless communication it depends on many factors, but (from what I've experienced) it's worse from HSPA in comparison to EVDO, although I could have that backwards.

If you're texting things like, "lol" or "be there at 5" you're not likely to have much trouble if you drop. For my customers, they could have MAJOR problems, such as if they get an alert (or fail to receive it) that the flood threshold has been reached or the freezer temp has exceeded 31*, they're going to not be able to turn on the pump or fix the cooling systems- or even if they DO get it, they may not be able to send the command to turn the pump on or yadda yadda yadda.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 01:41:24 PM
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I share your frustration Jon. My previous phone was awesome and easy to make my own ringers for (which I only did maybe 3 times, but still). But it died and for the price of one of the same 2-3 year old model on eBay, I could get a new model from Sprint (with a new contract). And I think that says something about certain older models that actually work well and were easy to use for low-mid level tasks. Half of the brand new stuff on phones doesn't even work and half of the people that buy them will never use half of their half working tools anyway. And my razr with Sprint is locked down for ringtone uploading, so it's not just Verizon, it's all the service companies working in conjunction with the manufacturers (I think, unless it's just the software that Sprint put on the phone?).

I've had a data plan before and I found myself only using it once or twice a month to check a score or the weather. But if you're somewhere that has data plan coverage, there's probably another source of weather info nearby anyway (unless your in a vehicle, but you could just look out the window), and paying that much money so I could find out sports scores an hour earlier was not worth while. If I had a $400 phone and the fastest data service I would probably use it more, but at least to this point it has not been worth the cost for me. I did try the navigation service on my phone, but it's hard to push buttons on a flip phone while driving and be able to see anything, plus I was trying to get to some place in a shopping market area which no navigation software that I've seen seems to handle well, and I decided that if I really needed a navigator it'd be cheaper/better to buy a stand alone.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
11/25/2009 @ 02:06:39 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 09:48:04 AM
Not all that long ago we all thought texting was stupid, and now we do it all the time (and apparently I don't get half of them.)


For the record, I still think texting is stupid.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i
11/25/2009 @ 03:40:37 PM
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Yeah, there was a period there were I'm surprised I even justified the cost of the data plan. Now though it's basically a computer in your pocket, with broadband internet speed. In fact even at home my phone has become my primary method of checking facebook and my email. (Though, it has wifi access there, my point is it's gotten to the point where the devices aren't just "sports scores in a pinch" type things.)

It's a big jump for an individual, the per-line cost for a family plan isn't that much more, at least not on Sprint. It would only be $20 more a month for Sarah and I to add a line with internet, sprint tv, nav, and everything else. In fact, maybe we should strike up some deals with each other. Pay us $40 a month, it's a win-win! emoticon
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
11/26/2009 @ 06:46:07 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 09:48:04 AM
So get something that's open source, and more than just a phone, like Droid, which by all accounts appears to be a hell of a phone.


Wow, a one sentence solution to all my problems that I totally was looking for and had never thought of! You're a miracle worker.

Oh, I kid.

Kind of.

Though the three paragraph exposition on how anyone without a data plan is a Luddite was a nice touch.

OK, I'll stop. [end of Jon being a jerkface]


Seriously though, as I said in my original post, I'm not anti-smartphone/dataplan. It's just something I'm not convinced I need/want at the cost. It's not even a matter of use. I'm sure I'd use it a TON. In fact, I'd probably use it so much that I'd put that fact in the "cost" column rather than the "benefit" column. It's like video games for me. I don't like buying video game systems, because even though I'd get hours of use out of them, that means that I'd be using them for hours. (As it is, I have less expensive ways to waste multiple hours each day.)

This all actually leads me to a concept that I've wanted to write something about on this site, but (fill in one of a handful of reasons why I haven't).

I get a kick out of how everyone values things differently. And there are like a billion different offshoots of that phenomenon that you could go on, and I find a lot of them fairly intriguing. For instance, I think we've all experienced those moments in life where we look at someone else and say, "I can't believe they're blowing their money on that." But then again, I'm sure we've all got parts of our lives where people could just as easily say that about us. And there are also moments where we see someone trying to save money on something, and you're just like, "Really? You're cutting corners there?" And I don't take the position that everything is all completely relative and someone spending their money on gambling while their child starves is somehow a valid choice or anything like that. But I do find it interesting when I label it a waste for someone to "overpay" for a trendy new whatever, but I don't think twice about eating out for lunch almost every day instead of bringing something from home. I really like my daily trips to my eatery of choice, and it's simpler to bring my wallet than to bring food, even if only slightly. On the other hand, I'm pretty frugal when it comes to clothes. I don't buy a lot of them and I usually only buy something if I can get a deal on it. It's not that I don't like nice clothes, I just feel fine wearing my $10-15 t-shirts and clearance rack jeans.

Then again, maybe if I spent more time, or the other people spent more time, planning out and realizing where our money went, maybe our choices would be different. But that's a whole other line of thought you could go down.
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Jon edited this 3 times, last at 11/26/2009 7:03:07 am
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
11/26/2009 @ 02:08:23 PM
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My phone us pushing 5 years, and that's only because I got a new phone after the new-every-two plan, and then I ran into a concrete sidewalk barrier in DC and broke the display. I do have an iPod touch, which is about as close to a smartphone as I'll probably get for a while. It is nice, though, not having to lug my laptop out everywhere in my apartment when I want to check email/facebook/jsonline/scores. However, for me, it's more the cost that is the deterent at the moment. I can't afford an extra $30+ per month right now. If I could, I would use that money for cable before I'd use it for portable internet. I will say, though, in a big city, having portable internet would be nice when you need to know where a restaurant or store is when you are away from home. But hopefully, I'll be back in Wisconsin and in a smaller town than Tampa soon enough!

Jon Wrote - Today @ 07:46:07 AM
Seriously though, as I said in my original post, I'm not anti-smartphone/dataplan. It's just something I'm not convinced I need/want at the cost. It's not even a matter of use. I'm sure I'd use it a TON. In fact, I'd probably use it so much that I'd put that fact in the "cost" column rather than the "benefit" column. It's like video games for me. I don't like buying video game systems, because even though I'd get hours of use out of them, that means that I'd be using them for hours. (As it is, I have less expensive ways to waste multiple hours each day.)

Confederate General Stonewall Jackson once said that he didn't smoke tobacco or drink because he found he liked it too much.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
11/26/2009 @ 02:15:15 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 10:48:04 AM
Growing up we didn't get an answering machine for a really long time. My mom's reasoning was "No one calls us when we're not home." I feel like the same type of logic gets said a lot in regards to dataplans/smart phones. How would you know you wouldn't use it if you've never had one to use?

It's really just like the cell phone itself. Very few of us need one, but if you have one for a month you'll never not have one again. It's almost like a lifestyle change, you just get used to being able to talk to anyone no matter where you are, and the fact that you used to pull off the road and find a payphone in a pinch will seem like some bizarre concept from 1965. Though it's not quite as dramatic, the same thing is true of an internet connected phone.


I actually went one full year without having a cell phone after having one for 2 years previous. I probably could do it again if money became an issue.

And as far as answering machines/voicemail, I never leave a voicemail when I call people. I'll call them back if I really need to talk.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/26/2009 @ 11:27:42 PM
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Well, obviously if affording it is an issue, sure. I think most people, and sadly not all, would choose eating suppers over having a cell phone, I just mean it's the kind of thing that once you get used to it you sort of take it for granted. It's like the internet in general, most of us had computers before the internet, or for reasons other than the internet. Then we got the internet on dial up and got more and more used to it, then most of us moved to an always connected broadband system. Ever sat down lately at your computer when the internet is out? You do one of those "well what can I do now? Well I can...no. I could....no I can't do that either" things for a few minutes before realizing you have a $1000+ machine that is now only good for playing solitaire.

You hear a ton more "I'm not getting a cell phone because I don't need ones." than you do "I had a cell phone for a year but got rid of it for a landline because I didn't need its".
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Jeremy perfected this at 11/26/2009 11:28:59 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - www.digi.com
11/27/2009 @ 12:01:35 AM
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Can we stop with the droning on about whether the tech is useful/worth the money? Obviously some of us would prefer 28.8 websurfing.

Seriously, aside from the convenience and fun factors, smart devices are great for smart-grid and "connected home" applications.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
11/27/2009 @ 09:46:37 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 12:27:42 AM
...before realizing you have a $1000+ machine that is now only good for playing solitaire.

This is funny, because my favorite computer game recently is a 1999 game called Antietam, about, you guessed it, the Battle of Antietam. Somehow, it still works on Vista.
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Scott screwed with this at 11/27/2009 9:47:25 am
face.bmpCarlos44ec - Knuckle Sammich
12/11/2009 @ 01:44:43 PM
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That's an awesome game, Scott. There was a Civil War game I played made in 1994 or so that I'd willingly play again now. Had the intelligence of a DrugWars game for your TI-83, and I loved it!
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
12/13/2009 @ 04:46:20 PM
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Carlos44ec Wrote - 12/11/2009 @ 02:44:43 PM
That's an awesome game, Scott. There was a Civil War game I played made in 1994 or so that I'd willingly play again now. Had the intelligence of a DrugWars game for your TI-83, and I loved it!


Antietam was released a year or two after another game called Gettysburg, and it was pretty much the same thing, just a different battle or course. And the really cool thing about it is that the games are very historically accurate. You essentially play the commanding general and move the corps/divisions/brigades/regiments where ever you want them to be. AND, being the Civil War Buff/Enthusiast that I am, I've read two very long books about both battles and every unit (right down to the individual regiments) is pretty much exactly where the books says there are at any given point in the battle. Of course, how the battle actually plays out is up the user. But it's like I've traveled back 140 years every time I play! Hurrah!
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - ...and Bob's your Uncle!
12/13/2009 @ 08:41:54 PM
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sweet :)
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
12/28/2009 @ 07:57:57 PM
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I'm crying foul on this! You cannot buy a smartphone without buying the data plan. At least you can't buy a Droid Eris from Verizon without paying $30/month per phone for the data plan. This seems stupid. I can't afford the data plan for one phone right now, let alone two phones. But I do have wifi in my apartment and I'm in my apartment a lot, so I can get by just fine without the data plan. I'm crying foul that they don't let you just use the phone as a phone and require that you pay an additional $30/month just for the use of that particular phone.

If anyone has a fuctional reason why they would require the data plan, let me know, but we walked into the Verizon store set on buying two phones and walked out empty handed because we were required to pay for something we couldn't afford nor needed at this particular moment.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
12/28/2009 @ 11:31:02 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:57:57 PM
...we were required to pay for something we couldn't afford nor needed at this particular moment.


Just like with mandatory health "insurance" if the feds have their way.

What if you buy a used one? Although, Android is a browser-based operating system, so maybe it's basically useless without the data plan? I don't really know.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
12/28/2009 @ 11:52:47 PM
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The glib answer, because they can. The semi-legit reason: because they subsidize these phones like 75% (often $400+) and make the money back on the bigger plans. If they let you keep just your $50 a month talk plan they might not even make enough to offset the costs plus the subsidy. Places have looked into doing carrierless phones, but it never gets past talking about it because Americans just won't pay $600-$700 for a smart phone, just so they have carrier/plan freedom. Ultimately, everyone is doing it, so they know you have little choice. (Sprint is a comparative steal, especially beyond 2 lines, but they'll also make you go to their most expensive plans for most of their high end phones. As will At&t with the iPhone.)

Really though, it's not like phones a few years ago where it just had access to the internet. They are data driven devices now, and really would be quite crippled without internet everywhere, but you aren't alone in the "I have wifi and don't want to pay for data" camp.

I think it's an example of phones growing faster than carriers can really cope with. They are seeing into the not to distant future and realizing that every phone is soon going to pull some data back and forth and realizing they need to grab money now for upgrades and/or to profit over a 5 year span. Every carrier has pretty much doubled the cost of access to data over the last few years, but that isn't really surprising. I think people who haven't had data plans are pretty floored by it, as it's often near what they pay for internet at home, but it's not that surprising. I used to pay $15 a month for data from the "you can get sports scores" era to the "you can browse the net at dial up speed" era. With my hero I've downloaded 290MB of stuff since 12/21 with just casual usage, with most of my day spent where I have WIFI. I couldn't download 290 MB in a month with my Treo if I had it download 24/7 for a month, let alone a week. Obviously your computer uses more data, but you can download an awful lot with your phone. (In fact, if you got a pre you can easily install a program on it that lets you turn your phone into a wireless router, so you wouldn't need an ISP at all really.)

Long story short, there probably should have been some increases rather than an abrupt doubling, as that's led to lots of cries of foul since the line is pretty arbitrary right now at the crossover where phones that aren't all that different qualify for the optional $15 add on data and others are a mandatory arm and leg, but ultimately all the gradual stepping would have meant is that many of us would have been paying more in the past. We'd still be at this point today.

There are smartphones out there where the data is optional, and I'm not sure how buying used would work, but unlocked phones are pricey.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
12/29/2009 @ 06:18:47 PM
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Don't u have an iPhone Scott?
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
12/29/2009 @ 06:19:28 PM
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I have an iPod touch. And it was basically my wife who needed a new phone since hers sort of crashed and burned last night. We are up for new phones with verizon, and they were often 2 Droid Erises (Eri; Erisi?) as a buy one get one free with $100 mail in rebate, so essentially two droid Erises for $100 total. In 6 months when Melissa is working and making craploads of money, we can afford mobile internet. We will probably just wait until then if a similar offer still stands.
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Scott messed with this at 12/29/2009 6:24:28 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - As Seen On The Internet
09/14/2010 @ 07:58:20 PM
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I was looking at custom bootscreens for my phone, and someone made this.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ug18bm.gif

There are 2 "with sound" versions, though I'm not sure what the sound is.
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