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Added By: Alex
Added on: 10/12/2009 @ 10:43:36 PM
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Global temperature

Seems like maybe some more investigating is needed before we get too aggressive with legislation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_re_us/un_un_us_climate_change_1
View External Link [news.bbc.co.uk]
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!?
10/13/2009 @ 08:38:11 AM
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Well, there's always going to be someone with a different take, or who thinks they discovered something revolutionary that wasn't actually overlooked. Even if we were having a smaller-than-assumed effect, it's still an effect. Most of the things being proposed as solutions you could make the case that any climate change impact they have is benefit #3. Saving energy, especially gas, is much more its own reward, because it's cheaper, cleaner, and many of those things are limited.

As long as we stay semi-sane about lifestyle changes, global warming is largely irrelevant. On the flip side, even if we were guaranteed the planet would be uninhabitable by humans in 500 years at our current rate of consumption, people who think we should all move into tiny mud huts and live off the land would still be unrealistic crazies.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 10/13/2009 8:38:57 am
newalex.jpgAlex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so!
10/13/2009 @ 01:38:46 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 08:38:11 AM
As long as we stay semi-sane about lifestyle changes, global warming is largely irrelevant. On the flip side, even if we were guaranteed the planet would be uninhabitable by humans in 500 years at our current rate of consumption, people who think we should all move into tiny mud huts and live off the land would still be unrealistic crazies.


Agreed. I think this, "Boxer and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, are co-sponsoring the 800-page Senate bill which calls for a ceiling on greenhouse gas emissions beginning in three years, to be tightened annually so that emissions would be 20 percent lower in 2020 than they were in 2005. It would require emissions to be 83 percent lower by 2050." falls well on the "unrealistic crazies" side of the middle ground. Seriously? 83% lower? Might as well make the bill include provisions that 50% of vehicles in 2005 must be flying vehicles that run off body heat.
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2887.gifAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
10/13/2009 @ 01:43:25 PM
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Which isn't to say we shouldn't try to reach those goals, but passing legislation mandating future technology is asinine at best.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/13/2009 @ 02:27:12 PM
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Want to hear something funny? In California they passed laws saying that car windows had to reflect a certain amount of light, so it takes less gas to cool them. To accomplish this windows are being coated with a metallic substance. Since the whole outside of the car is now metal it turns the car into a Faraday cage, which makes cell phone signals and GPS Navigation systems basically not work inside the car. Fail!
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
10/14/2009 @ 12:20:28 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 08:38:11 AM
Most of the things being proposed as solutions you could make the case that any climate change impact they have is benefit #3. Saving energy, especially gas, is much more its own reward, because it's cheaper, cleaner, and many of those things are limited.


If that's the case, then they should and will be gradually adopted by the public looking out for its own interests. No need for bans/tax breaks/etc. from the government.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
10/14/2009 @ 01:58:32 PM
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Cap and trade steals from the Midwest and gives to the coasts?

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/13/cap-and-trade-imbalance-between-states-has-midwest-mad/

Edit: House voting map for this bill - http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/house/1/477
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Alex perfected this at 10/14/2009 2:03:01 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - You had me at "Hello"
10/19/2009 @ 10:25:30 AM
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it was cold at Ft. McCoy this weekend.

That is all.
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pyzamOmgWtf.jpgJfk10intex - My computer is better than yours!!!!
11/15/2009 @ 08:35:14 PM
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Can you believe some people dont believe in Global Climate Change? I am unfamiliar with the people on this site's politcal views but my god. If there is anyone on here that doesnt believe in climate change... seriously.... omg. Someone get me a gun! emoticonemoticonemoticonemoticon
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - www.digi.com
11/16/2009 @ 02:21:25 PM
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I believe in a global climate change cycle that would have resulted in warming with or without humans, but I do agree we aggravate the problem.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/16/2009 @ 06:09:36 PM
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Jfk10intex Wrote - Yesterday @ 08:35:14 PM
Can you believe some people dont believe in Global Climate Change? I am unfamiliar with the people on this site's politcal views but my god. If there is anyone on here that doesnt believe in climate change... seriously.... omg. Someone get me a gun! emoticonemoticonemoticonemoticon


Well, it's not quite that simple. There are a few layers to the problem.

1a) Is it happening at all. 1b) If so, is this natural fluctuation. - There's less of a consensus here than in other areas of science, signs point to yes, but that doesn't make you some crazy nut job if you want to continue to look into the matter.
2) If it is happening, are humans causing the problem, doing anything to exacerbate the problem, or neither
3) Even if 1 and 2 are yes, you would still need to look into whether or not this is a bad thing. There are pros and cons.
4) Even if the cons outweigh the pros, there would still need to be a conversation about what that implies we do. Can we realistically do anything about the problem? Make work nonsense like recycling just becomes a pain in people asses. The concern here is damage to our society, so obviously any changes would have to be weighed against their effect, both to our society and the environment. If someone waved a magic wand and everyone was a ride-my-bike-everywhere-I-go vegetarian it would be great for the environment in the short term, but the effects on society would be disastrous. Sure, Walmart is everywhere, but how many are within realistic bike riding distance of everyone's house? Medium/Long term it would be a disaster for the environment anyway. Instead of one optimized retail distribution system you'd end of with a billion little farmers/flea market type places, which are horrible for "green" purposes. Long term you'd just end up with 100x the retail locations. Instead of one central super Walmart there would be 20 Mini-Walmarts, which couldn't carry as many products, and all had their own lot that used to be a field, construction process, bike rack parking lot, etc. There's cause and effect here.
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Jeremy edited this 2 times, last at 11/16/2009 6:25:29 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
11/16/2009 @ 06:38:13 PM
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Put it this way, let's say you decided to do your part to go green by limiting your driving to 100 miles a week. (Or whatever number would be cutting back for you.)

At the end of the work week you want to go see your favorite up-and-coming band in concert Saturday, and the Packers play at Cowboys Stadium Sunday, but your blood oath to the environment prevents you from going to both, because it would put you over your limit. You can only choose one. Which to you think has more of an impact on society not being able to continue on our normal course? The ticket and t-shirt your band didn't sell, or the gallon of gas you saved? It's probably a wash.

In other words, it really doesn't make much sense to basically have the gist of your take on it be "Holy shit, if we don't do something soon the effect on our society is going to be huge. We can't let that happen! We better make some drastic, almost universally detrimental, changes to our society ASAP!"
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Jeremy perfected this 2 times, last at 11/16/2009 9:13:26 pm
pyzamOmgWtf.jpgJfk10intex - 229 Posts
11/22/2009 @ 04:54:43 AM
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or you could just stay home and watch the game
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