MLB 2013 Regular Season

04/02/2013 4:41 pm
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Only 1 day late!!!
matt.jpgMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
04/02/2013 @ 04:42:11 PM
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http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2013/04/wilkin-ramirez-makes-mlbs-unofficial-5000000th-appearance/

The Senior Staff (well, most of us, sorry Sarah) was in attendance.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/10/2013 @ 09:02:02 AM
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Bold prediction*: John Axford will go the way of Derrick Turnbow.

*by which I mean more of a description of what is actually happening rather than attempting to predict something in the future.

At some point, Axford has to stop being an option out of the bullpen, and possibly "designated for assignment" or outright cut. I know it's early in the season, but he has had 4 consecutive outings that have been terrible. 100% of his outings have given up runs. He has allowed 4 homeruns in 3.1 innings. And he is getting hit hard. He has a 14-1 fly ball to ground ball ratio! One scout said hitters are seeing the ball so well that it's as if Axford is tipping his pitches. Something's gotta give, because this is getting frustrating.

Just last night, he came in with 2 outs in the 7th and got a flyball out that only wasn't a homerun because of the wind. Then he came back for the 8th (in a tie game) and gave up a booming double, then the next batter sacrifice bunted, then he walked the next two batters on 8 pitches. They took him out before the runs scored, and the next two pitchers allowed all three runs to score, charging them to Axford, but Axford set the table that eventually lost the game.

In fact, here's the pitch by pitch progression of Axford's 8th inning:
batter one: ball, double
batter two: ball, ball, bunt sacrifice
batter three: ball, ball, ball (intentional), ball (intentional)
batter four: ball, ball, ball, ball

Something is just not right.
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Scott edited this at 04/10/2013 9:52:30 am
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
04/10/2013 @ 01:39:13 PM
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I fully agree that he needs to be moved to low leverage situations until further notice. Doesn't seem quite like a Turnbow supernova yet though. There's still hope for Axford to find his form.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/12/2013 @ 07:05:22 PM
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Anyone have any thoughts on the Greinke-Quentin fiasco? Personally, I hope Quentin gets suspended for about 15 games. The longest mound charging suspension ever has been 8 games. I'm not sure what the circumstances of that one are, but this one is just bad. Quentin charged the mound for virtually no reason (why didn't he charge the mound the previous 100 times he's been plunked?), and put his whole weight into a form tackle on a guy he's got 50 pounds on. And on top of all that, Greinke is possibly out for 3 month, or about 15 starts. It only makes sense that since Quentin did something that had nothing to do with an act of baseball that eventually caused a player to potentially miss half the season that his punishment should set the bar. It's not that it should be a game for game match, necessarily, but baseball should send a message and throw the book at this guy.

And apparently Matt Kemp pulled a Prince Fielder and chased Quentin down in the clubhouse after the game.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
04/12/2013 @ 08:59:11 PM
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8 games for Quentin. That's about what I figured.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
04/14/2013 @ 11:24:19 AM
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Here is the Quentin/Greinke incident, as called by the legendary Vin Scully: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26207091&c_id=mlb

While I agree that Quentin is mainly to blame for this, and was rightly suspended, let me play the contrarian, and throw out some thoughts:

1. I don't like the argument that because of the count/situation/etc., he obviously didn't hit him on purpose. I'm not saying that it isn't valid and useful to consider what the game situation was, it is, but it can only help us determine what is likely, not what was. Athletes have been known to do stupid things before, and I wouldn't put it past any of them to do something stupid at an inopportune time.

2. As Scully notes in the video, earlier in the game, Matt Kemp had a pitch thrown near his head, so maybe there was some retaliation motive.

3. While it's not up to the level of acceptance that fighting is in hockey, I would say that charging the mound and the bench clearing brawl are semi-accepted as a part of baseball.

4. You can't tell what was said, but it appears Greinke said something to Quentin before he really charges the mound. It could have been nothing, but it could have helped provoke the charging of the mound.

5. While Quentin charging the mound is the main cause of Greinke's injury, Greinke didn't do himself any favors in how he approached the fight. Quentin comes in like batters normally do in these things, but Greinke, then, lowers his shoulder into Quentin and Quentin lowers his body in response. Off the top of my head, I don't recall other pitchers responding to a charging batter like he did.

Like hockey fights, it seems like most of the time the participants in baseball brawls throw some wild and ineffective punches and do some mild wrestling around before the whole thing is broken up. You could argue (and I suppose, I am), that Greinke broke the "script" on how these fights usually go, and ended up contributing to his own injury.

6. Because of these factors, I don't buy the argument that Quentin should have gotten a massive suspension. 8 games seems a little high, but is probably in the acceptable range. I would have given him 5 games.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
04/14/2013 @ 12:04:57 PM
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Did not seem at all intentional to me. And the pitch was only 6 inches off the plate: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-quentins-hbp-zone/

As someone with smaller frame than a lot of other people, I can attest that a head on collision is somewhere around plan Z. Matador, sweep the leg, throw dirt in their eyes, run away, anything other than making a goal line stand.

Quentin took 4 steps towards the mound with the bat in his hand, before Greinke said anything, and then Greinke only stood his ground (foolishly) while Quentin closed the distance. I would have made it at least 10 games.
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jon.jpgJon - Nutcan.com's kitten expert
04/15/2013 @ 02:40:45 AM
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Alex Wrote - Yesterday @ 12:04:57 PM
As someone with smaller frame than a lot of other people, I can attest that a head on collision is somewhere around plan Z. Matador, sweep the leg, throw dirt in their eyes, run away, anything other than making a goal line stand.


I liked this paragraph.
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Jon edited this at 04/15/2013 2:41:18 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 10:02:20 AM
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The fact is, Quentin went out there with malice intent. Greinke's actions in defending himself should in no way be taken into consideration when assessing a penalty on a guy who clearly was looking to make trouble. I think Quentin got off light with only 8 games. Heck, if you start making defending yourself illegal, only the criminals will defend themselves, right?

Not to mention that a huge part of Quentin's game plan at the plate is "I'm going to hang my hands over the plate and I ain't moving for no one". So for him to get all tied in knots for something that he is clearly an objective of his is crazy. Also, the guy apparently holds grudges for a very long time. He talked about a "history" that he has with Greinke. He didn't intend it this way probably, but it really is history, as in maybe 5 years ago Greinke hit him with a pitch. Clearly this is just a continuation of that history.

On a similar point, based on what I know of Greinke from his Brewer days, he's a guy who says what he's thinking, rather bluntly. And not necessarily because he's being a jerk who "tells it like it is". He has a well documented personality disorder that among other things causes him to sometimes say things without the help of a filter. He's sort of like what Seinfeld meant when he called Kramer a Pod Person. He says things normal people wouldn't say, not because he's a jerk, but because he doesn't realize that there might be a softer or better way of saying it. So whatever Greinke may or may not have said to caused Quentin to assume that Greinke wanted him in a sling, the intent of "come and get it, son" probably wasn't there.
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Scott perfected this 3 times, last at 04/15/2013 10:07:31 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 10:14:50 AM
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And to Alex's comment, which I too found rather amusing, I'm not sure a pro athlete is normally going to think like that. In fact, Greinke should pretty good form. As a guy who played a contact sport throughout my childhood and high school (hockey), I'd say that's exactly how you teach someone to absorb a hit (although, we usually were wearing big shoulder pads). And Quentin is a former football player (which Greinke probably is aware of), so there's a good chance that he didn't lower his shoulder in response to Greinke's position, but rather he was probably going to deliver a devastating form tackle that was only fended off by Greinke's quick thinking. So I like to think that Greinke's injury could/would have been much worse if he hadn't lowered his body and absorbed the contact. They used to tell us in hockey (and it was generally true) that you're more likely to get hurt if you are trying to be careful.
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matt.jpgMatt - Ombudsman
04/15/2013 @ 11:40:10 AM
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I guess my main point was that what Quentin did was pretty much what hundreds of batters before him have done as well. The only reason this is big news is because Greinke got injured. It was a freak thing that Greinke somewhat contributed to himself. To me, that warrants a suspension along the lines of what a player normally gets for charging the mound.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 01:10:10 PM
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I think you are absolutely right. It is big news because the pitcher got injured. All the more reason why this should be treated like the stupid, non-baseball garbage that it is. Giving him "the typical" rather lenient suspension just says "well, it's just another mound charging event." Tell that to the Dodgers. Tell that to Greinke. What Greinke did or didn't do that in any way contributed to his getting injured is completely irrelevant in light of the raging lunatic foaming at the mouth charging for no reason. Greinke did not injure himself. Carlos Quentin injured Zack Grehnke. In the article I posted below, Jayson Stark suggests (rightfully so) that pretty much the only person in the ballpark and probably veiwing audience that thought that Greinke was throwing at Quentin was Quentin. The catcher didn't react, the umpire did nothing. In fact, I imagine the possibility that when Quentin starting stepping towards the mound, Greinke could have said "that's like the 8th time you've been hit already this season".

Basically, I think it's hard to ask a pitcher to try and diffuse a situation when he is completely blindsided by an accusation and has about .5 seconds to react. Quentin continues to defend his actions, initially saying that the situation could have been avoided (apparently by everyone but him), and then after the suspension was handed down (saying he needed to protect himself; how about not hanging over the plate?). I think his post game interview should have been (and perhaps was) a big factor in determining the penalty. He basically said he was sorry Greinke forced him to break his collar bone.

Now I don't necessarily think this is an epidemic in baseball. It didn't happen at all last year. What frustrated me was the utter indifference of Quentin afterwards, even with his own teammates apologizing to the Dodgers DURING the brawl. Even his own teammates didn't think Greinke was doing anything wrong.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9164643/dodgers-padres-brawl-repercussions
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
04/15/2013 @ 01:28:39 PM
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Basically, this mound charge incident resulted in one of the worst mound charging related injuries ever while being about the most unjustifiable time for a mound charginging incident, so I can accept 8 games, although I think it's a little light. I don't quite understand how you can think that 8 games is too harsh, but that's what debate is for, I guess.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
04/15/2013 @ 01:42:14 PM
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Hey, I think charging the mound is stupid and baseball should start to come down harder on players who do so (along with pitchers who intentionally hit batters). But like I said before, it's become a semi-accepted part of baseball, and from what I understand, the usual punishment is 3-5 games, give or take. I don't believe it would be proper to throw the book at him (15+ games/as long as Greinke is out/etc.) when what he did was not any different than other players have done in the past. If MLB wants to make a tougher stand on charging the mound, good, they should do that, but they should announce the rules and apply them in future circumstances, not ex post facto, to Carlos Quentin.
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 01:45:57 PM
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http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25536729&c_id=mlb

This was a much more unjustifiable mound charge (though he was stopped before he got to the mound). It also resulted in an injury, of sorts, but the batter wasn't even ejected from the game. emoticon
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Matt screwed with this 2 times, last at 04/15/2013 1:49:48 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 03:19:19 PM
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Since Hockey fights were brought up, and I don't know that nothing would have happened, it was already mostly on at that point, but Grienke does "drop the gloves" and step to meet him. Which isn't to say he instigated it just as much, though we don't know what he said (or do we?), or that he has no right to do anything but stand there and take it, or he's equal parts instigator, but I'm not sure he's as little responsible for it as portrayed above either.

In the end, I actually don't like the ends justifying the punishment in general. Their actions were their actions, and the outcomes were the outcomes. The mound has been charged 1000 times before, sometimes with incident, others without. Greinke's actions, at the very least, were an agreement to fight. Not to mention they play a sport where this is a fairly established/regular occurrence/tradition. Getting injured is always a possibility, it happening in this case is happenstance.
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Jeremy perfected this 2 times, last at 04/15/2013 3:23:39 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 03:30:38 PM
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I guess I look at it closer to this way; If two hockey players were fighting, and one of them got their eye socket smashed in, or for that matter, died as a result, would you want the other player punished accordingly? (Assuming of course he behaved in a manner similar to the 34 million fights that preceded it.) I would say no. It would be tragic, but tragedy doesn't NEED a fall guy IMO.

Now, obviously fighting in hockey is a more accepted part of the game than mound charging (and bench clearing in general) is in baseball, but it IS most definitely a part of baseball, and, as I see it, every man out there tacitly accepts the risk, and that goes double for pitchers.*

* On some level they must literally accept the risk, because we're talking about number of games suspended and not number of days in jail.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 04/15/2013 3:55:30 pm
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
04/15/2013 @ 03:55:05 PM
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I'm the first guy in line to jump all over pitchers (and managers) for throwing at batters. With that said, there are a few things that bother me about this situation and why I think this was an unjustifiable charge, and that the 8 game suspension was justified if not too lenient:

1) Quentin was the only guy in the ballpark who thought Greinke was throwing at him
2) Quentin gets hit more than anyone else in the game
3) Quentin blamed Greinke afterwards for not "avoiding" it
4) as a result of Quentin's absurd outburst, Greinke is out for 8 weeks

Anything that Greinke may have done in reaction to Quentin's charge is irrelevant, unless he had started throwing haymakers, which he didn't. Could Greinke had said "my bad" or something to quell the situation, sure. But again, I think that's asking a lot to place the situation quelling on the being attacked.

Besides, baseball has made an effort to make bench clearing brawls NOT part of the game. That's why they have upped the suspensions for these things. In recent history, mound charging suspension lengths have increased. Nyjer Morgan got 8 games just a couple of years ago for charging the mound. So I would say it's not necessarily accurate to say that brawls have become accepted; rather, brawls have become less and less accepted, as evidence by an increase in suspensions. Obviously not all mound charges are 100% on the batter, (for crying out loud, Tony LaRussa made a career out of being baseball's enforcer; he'd hit your batter in the back and then blame you afterwards), but when brawls initiated for no reason whatsoever result in one of baseball's top pitchers missing 1/3 of the season, it would behoove baseball to make it hurt more for the instigators of such acts. I'm not saying necessarily that the punishment should fit results of the crime, but the punishment should fit the crime. Maybe 8 games fits the crime, but perhaps it should be more. 5 games is a slap on the wrist.

There's this: in baseball, if a player is injured and can't play for more than a day or 2, the only real option for the team is sit him down for a full 15 games on the DL. So perhaps an penalty for charging the mound should be an automatic 15 games, since the likilhood of an unjustifiable injury at the hands of someone who's inention is clearly to inflict some pain is greatly increased. You would have to do something about pitchers throwing at guys, but generally they do. Maybe they have to increase those penalties too, but that sort of thing is a lot harder to judge intent.

The point is twofold: safety and money. Sports in general is on a player safety kick. Anything that isn't "part of the game" (and brawls don't have to be) that would unnecessarily increase the risk of a player hitting the 30 day DL should be dealt with. The other side is money. Imagine if the Brewers had spent $160 million dollars on Greinke in the offseason, and then some idiot like Quentin puts him in the hospital because the 215th time he's been beaned was somehow the last straw. You're talking about a franchise crippling move. It could cost the Brewers the season, which could have enormous implications for the future. With the amount of money teams spend on players these days, allowing such unnecessary actions is bad for the business of the game. Maybe they shouldn't throw the book at Quentin. But maybe they should write a better book for dealing with situations like this.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/15/2013 @ 04:06:30 PM
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I mostly agree with all that, but just to play devil's advocate, maybe the fact that Quentin has been hit 400 times before uneventfully (though I guess I have no idea how often he charges) is also maybe evidence that there was something more to this, perhaps non-obvious. The "why this time?" question goes both ways.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 04/15/2013 4:07:00 pm
reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - Bring me the finest muffins and bagels in all the land.
04/15/2013 @ 06:33:22 PM
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It's very important that whenever charging the mound is mentioned, that you watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuGp2ZRGIqI
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/16/2013 @ 09:51:09 AM
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http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=21211

Because this season has been going along so well already. Why not add a DUI for good measure.
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newalex.jpgAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
04/16/2013 @ 01:45:15 PM
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"Probably the biggest baseball story of last week was Carlos Quentin charging the mound after a hit-by-pitch and in the process badly injuring Zack Greinke. At first it looked like Quentin had done something completely stupid, then after some additional consideration, it looked like Quentin had done something completely stupid and Greinke also hadn’t helped himself. (Nuance.)"

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mapping-out-the-hit-by-pitches/
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
04/16/2013 @ 02:42:00 PM
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I don't get it. That article makes the claim in the first paragraph that you stated above, but that's the last it mentions it. That's a little disappointing. I was expecting some support that ledt to the conclusion "after some additional consideration".
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/17/2013 @ 10:24:44 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
04/17/2013 @ 10:55:56 AM
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so the part Alex quoted was a joke? Or the author just used the beaning incident as a lead-in to analyze HBP's as a whole?
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newalex.jpgAlex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated
04/17/2013 @ 01:03:15 PM
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It was a lead in, and a tongue in cheek way of acknowledging those who feel Greinke was at least somewhat to blame, while also reaffirming Quentin did something completely stupid.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/17/2013 @ 10:05:29 PM
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The Brewers should have won this game right here and now. Tie game in the bottom of the ninth The Giants threw a ball into the dugout while the Brewers had a guy rounding second. By rule he should have been awarded the base he was going to as well as the next base. Umpire only gave him 3rd base. Hopefully that doesn't come back to screw them.

edit: two batters later, walk-off win. I just like a good rules dispute.
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Scott edited this 2 times, last at 04/17/2013 10:09:55 pm
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
04/18/2013 @ 01:12:49 PM
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There's not much to dispute, the run should have scored.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/18/2013 @ 02:00:53 PM
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Roenicke didn't protest much, I'm curious why, or if he figured it was a lost cause. If the ump didn't see where the runner was, then he didn't see where the runner was. I'm glad it didn't matter, but that would have been pretty frustrating if it did.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/18/2013 @ 05:38:09 PM
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When a fielder other than the pitcher throws the ball into dead ball area, the award is 2 bases. The award is from where the runners were at the time of the pitch if it is the first play by an infielder before all runners have advanced or from where each runner was physically positioned at the time the ball left the throwers hand on all other plays.

Rule: 7.05(g)
Official Baseball Rules
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
04/18/2013 @ 05:43:26 PM
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Ok, that makes sense. Because the throw that ended up in the dugout was the first play made by the shortstop, the runner at first only gets 3rd base. If the fielder had attempted to get the runner at 2nd, failed, and then thrown to first and out of play, then the runner would have been given the bases from where he was when the throw was made. I think that's the correct interpretation of that rule, especially given the way the play was ruled. Thanks for looking that up.
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Scott perfected this at 04/18/2013 5:43:47 pm
newalex.jpgAlex - Refactor Mercilessly
04/18/2013 @ 06:57:47 PM
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What's the definition of "before all runners have advanced"? I'm not sure that Gomez didn't beat the throw to 1st base anyway, so would that count as advanced?
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
04/19/2013 @ 09:08:41 AM
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I'm not sure, and I have no idea if that's the situation in question, I just found it on a site that listed out "The runner gets the base he's going to, plus one on a ball thrown out-of-play" in a list of "baseball myths".
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
04/19/2013 @ 09:54:54 AM
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It would seem that it ends up being that way most of the time, even if the exact wording of the rule is "2 bases" instead of "the base you're going to plus 1". I assumed it was 2 bases from where you were at the time of the throw, but apparently if it is the first attempt by a fielder to make a play, then it is where the runner started from. It would make sense for this distinction to be there. On a play where there's a grounder to the SS, an errant throw would essentially be a 3 base error if the runner on 1st base had gotten to 2nd before the throw was made. On the other hand, if ball is hit to the outfield, and a relay is made to an infielder who subsequently throws the ball out of play, it makes sense to award two bases from the runner currently is, rather than where he started from. Essentially, the runner on first base may already be at 3rd, (or on his way home) by the time the relay was booted. Also, the distinction that the first play be made by an infielder seems key too. That means if an outfielder throws home and airmails the catcher and the ball ends up the stands, that is the first play, but it isn't an infielder making the play.

Basically, it seems that the rule is there to prevent any instance of ball being thrown out of play from scoring a run. If the runner is on first and an infielder commits an error, then it isn't necessarily a run scored. If it's the 2nd play by an infielder, or a ball hit to the oufield, then where the runners are when the bad play happens seems a little more relevant.
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Scott perfected this 2 times, last at 04/19/2013 10:03:40 am
sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
04/20/2013 @ 11:36:09 AM
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Speaking of Brewer baserunning, this was enjoyed by the senior staff although they got the call wrong by missing the tag on Segura I think. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/jean-segura-steals-second-then-steals-first-bizarre-103642855--mlb.html
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Sarah messed with this 2 times, last at 04/20/2013 11:38:49 am
scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
04/21/2013 @ 09:20:58 AM
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130420&content_id=45334346&vkey=news_mil&c_id=mil

I was just going to comment on that, and then saw that Sarah already did. Technically, what Segura did was perfectly legal, since his intention wasn't to confuse or make a travesty of the game, but rather it was his own confusion that got him back to first. It looked like Segura should have been called out because he was tagged after he stopped touching 2nd base, but that's beside the point. The really sad thing about this whole thing is that there is no negative stat for Segura on the play. Braun, on the other hand, is given a caught stealing, even though he was the only one who did nothing wrong. The link I posted is another article about the same thing, with some further explanation and analysis.

Perhaps the most ironic, or possibly fitting, thing about this whole thing is that the very next inning, the game ended when Jonathan Lucroy threw out a would-be Cubs base stealer. Applying the tag? Jean Segura.
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Scott messed with this at 04/21/2013 9:41:38 am
scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
04/22/2013 @ 08:39:37 AM
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Segurapalooza continues.
Major League Baseball isn't done sorting out this play, from what I understand. It's still trying to figure out how to score it, compute it and explain to its computers how a runner on second base wound up back on first base three pitches later.

It turns out that the play probably wasn't supposed to be legal. The rule that was sited to allow for Segura to backtrack so long as he wasn't making a travesty of the game or trying to confuse wasn't intended for subsequent plays, but rather a continuation of the current play. Another rule would seem to supercede this rule; a rule that says that once the pitcher "assumes his pitching position" after the runner has safely reached any base, that runner "may not return to a previously occupied base." So it would appear that the play shouldn't have been allowed. But since it did happen, and it was allowed, they have to find a way to score it, right? It is probably a good thing that the result of the play ultimately didn't have an impact on the play. There was little to no (I don't remember, anyway) argument from either team really about the play, and the Cubs didn't play the game under any sort of protest. Had the score been different, and somehow Segura became the tying or winning run, maybe things would have been different. But it sounds like while this play is pretty nonconsequential, we probably haven't heard the last of it.
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Scott messed with this at 04/22/2013 8:44:54 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/23/2013 @ 11:06:03 AM
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I feel like every other day the Brewers are encountering a strange rule (and by strange, I mean not really that strange, and by every other day, I mean a couple of times this week). Yesterday while playing at Petco Park in San Diego, Carlos Gomez hit a moon shot to left field that was hooking foul before it banged off the side of the Western Metal Supply company, which is in play in left field, the corner of which serves as the left field foul pole.
The hit was ruled foul, but upon further review, it appeared to hit right at the corner of the building before bouncing into foul territory. Looking at the replay, it appeared that ball hit the left side of the building within an inch of the corner, which because of the lighting, looked like it was painting yellow of the foul pole. The umps gathered to discuss whether or not to look at the replay, and much to the chagrin of the Brewers Twitter followers, they didn't. Well, things went sour for a few minutes on Twitter. "What's the point of replay if you're going to miss calls like that" was essentially the reaction of pretty much everyone. Well, it turns out that the left side of the building is not part of the foul pole. And only the right side of the corner is actually painting yellow. When someone said that the left side wasn't yellow, I went back to the replay and in fact it did look yellow to me. But when they panned up from the very bottom, it became clear that in the stadium lights, the left side of the corner looks a little yellowish, adding to my confusion. (in the day, it's obvious, and now that it is pointed out to me, even more so. But when I went back to look at the replay, I could swear the left side towards the top looked the same color as the right side, but with a slightly darker tint that I assumed was because of the lighting). So it turns out the umps got the call correct, and I suppose the fact that the ball went left would suggest that it couldn't have been a home run, which might be why they felt no need to look at the replay. I wonder what they would do if the ball hit the exact corner of the building. Also, I would imagine that if there actually was a round pole instead of a painted stripe, the ball would have grazed the side of the pole. That's how close the ball was. So that's that, I guess.

In other news, the Brewers have won 8 straight. In the land of obscure, probably meaningless stats, the Brewers are the first team ever to start 2-8 and then win the next 8 games. The only other team to start 2-8 and then reach .500 before losing again was the 1977 Yankees who went on the win the World Series.
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Scott perfected this 4 times, last at 04/23/2013 11:11:09 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/24/2013 @ 08:20:18 AM
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Get used to the name Jean Segura. I think he's going to be around for a while.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/24/2013 @ 09:21:04 AM
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A few thoughts on Rickie Weeks:

Weeks clearly is struggling at the plate. He is striking out at an alarming rate (33% vs his career average of 23%), and partly as a result, his batting average is a dismal .164. His walk rate is pretty much at his career average, so his on base percentage is pretty much where it should be in relation to his batting average. There are a couple of stats that stick out, though, that may tend to give some comfort that hopefully this isn't much more than a slump that he will hit his way out of. One is that his Line Drive percentage is about 20% higher than his career average. He's putting fewer balls in play (52% vs 60% career), but when he's putting balls in play, he is making solid contact. However, his BaBIP is a full 54 points lower than his career average at .250, by far the worst number of his career. This would suggest that he is getting uncharacteristically unlucky. Balls that he is putting in play are turning into outs at a much higher rate than his career average, despite having a higher line drive rate than he's had since 2009.

Another stat that may be noteworthy and may run counter to my argument mentioned above is his ground ball to fly ball ratio, and his ground outs to air outs ratio. He typically averages more fly balls than ground balls. His career average is about 9 ground balls for every 10 fly balls. Sor far this year, it's more like 10 ground balls for every 7 fly balls. And his ground outs to fly outs are even more drastically different than his career average. He's making 5 ground outs for every 2 fly outs, when his career average is about 1-1.

Also, for what this means, Weeks had 19 at bats in the #2 spot in the lineup before the Brewers suffered some injuries and forced the Brewers to switch things around a bit. In the #2 spot, he batted .316 and had an OBP of .458. Once moved into the cleanup spot, he batted just .093 in 43 at bats. There might be something to that. Although, with how well Jean Segura is batting in the number 2 spot, I couldn't imagine taking him out.


What does all that mean? I'm not 100% sure. There are some things that suggest that Weeks is going through a typical, if not prolonged slump. There are other things that might suggest that weeks is not the same hitter he has been in the past. He's hit 20+ homeruns each of the last 3 years, so he isn't some slouch at the plate in his career. But his current stretch is somewhat alarming, and understandably frustrating.
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Scott edited this at 04/24/2013 9:24:37 am
2887.gifAlex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret
04/24/2013 @ 01:28:48 PM
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All that coupled with his defense falling off last year and carrying into this year means that he's likely going to grade out as overpaid from 2013-2015. So if I were GM I'd at least be listening to any offers for him during any of those years were they don't seem like contenders (to at least make the playoffs). Fortunately their winning streak quashed that status for now for this year.

I just looked into his slow start a bit yesterday. Weeks doesn't have quite the difference in splits as notorious slow starter Aramis Ramirez, but Weeks has been better historically in July-Oct than Mar-Jun.

Looking at your numbers, he's only getting older (aka slower) so hitting more balls on the ground is not a good thing. His power is also down so far this year, but I'm not sure which is the cause and which is the effect in that equation. Bottom line is, despite the line drive percentage, he's not hitting very well.

The TV announcers like to talk about spot in the order all the time, but I think they make too big of a deal out of it. Although in the specific case of hitting before Braun or after Braun, it seems intuitive that there may in fact be a difference in what pitchers throw the hitter.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/24/2013 @ 02:09:52 PM
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I only pointed out the spot in the order because of the drastic statistical difference in the way he was hitting in the #2 spot vs the way he was hitting in the #4 spot. It might not be about how a pitcher approaches a #2 batter vs the same batter in the #4 spot. It might be about how a batter approaches hitting based on different spots on the batting order. And then it may not be related at all. He had 19 at bats in the #2 spot (6 for 19 vs 4 for 43 in the 4 spot). That's hardly an exhaustive sample size to conclude that his only problem is that now he's batting 4th. But it also doesn't mean that that isn't the case. As Jeremy likes to say sometimes, it either is or it isn't (although it could also be part of the problem without being the entire cause of the problem).

And for what it's worth, by pointing out his increased ground ball percentage, I was bringing up the point that it probably wasn't a good thing (hence my use of the phrase "may run counter to my argument mentioned above"). So he's hitting more line drives than he typically does, but he's also hitting more ground balls than he usually does. I would imagine ground balls turn into outs at a much higher rate than line drives or fly balls, which would explain why his BaBIP is so much lower than his career average.
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Scott screwed with this 2 times, last at 04/24/2013 2:13:29 pm
scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
04/24/2013 @ 03:14:39 PM
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Speaking of being pitched differently, here's an article suggesting that despite missing out on Ramirez and Hart, opposing pitchers are not pitching around Ryan Braun.
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2887.gifAlex - Refactor Mercilessly
04/24/2013 @ 09:45:20 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 03:14:39 PM
Speaking of being pitched differently, here's an article suggesting that despite missing out on Ramirez and Hart, opposing pitchers are not pitching around Ryan Braun.


This comment, "I think the fact that he is batting .394/.500/1.000 in 33 at bats with runners on base and .120/.214//160 in 25 at bats with no runners on is the most significant story. In fact those numbers do not indicate that he is in a true slump. In fact he hitting significantly much better than normal with runners on and significantly much worse when the bases are clear. If this is a slump I hope he slumps all season."

It's hard to pitch around Braun when Aoki/Segura are on base all the time, regardless of who's up after Braun.
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newalex.jpgAlex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret
04/24/2013 @ 09:55:01 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 02:09:52 PM
And for what it's worth, by pointing out his increased ground ball percentage, I was bringing up the point that it probably wasn't a good thing (hence my use of the phrase "may run counter to my argument mentioned above"). So he's hitting more line drives than he typically does, but he's also hitting more ground balls than he usually does. I would imagine ground balls turn into outs at a much higher rate than line drives or fly balls, which would explain why his BaBIP is so much lower than his career average.


Wrong.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/batted-ball/
"In general, ground balls go for hits more often than fly balls (although they don’t result in extra base hits as often)."
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/24/2013 @ 10:24:41 PM
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I stand corrected.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 10:18:23 AM
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Alex Wrote - Yesterday @ 09:55:01 PM
Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:09:52 PM
And for what it's worth, by pointing out his increased ground ball percentage, I was bringing up the point that it probably wasn't a good thing (hence my use of the phrase "may run counter to my argument mentioned above"). So he's hitting more line drives than he typically does, but he's also hitting more ground balls than he usually does. I would imagine ground balls turn into outs at a much higher rate than line drives or fly balls, which would explain why his BaBIP is so much lower than his career average.


Wrong.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/batted-ball/
"In general, ground balls go for hits more often than fly balls (although they don’t result in extra base hits as often)."

If this is the case, then it seems all the more reason to think that his BaBIP being so much lower than normal is all the more unusual. He is hitting ground balls at a much higher rate than normal, and since ground balls go for hits more often than fly balls, his BaBIP should actually be higher than usual. That's my initial reaction, anyway. Basically, I think he will get this turned around at some point.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
04/25/2013 @ 12:17:13 PM
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Another day another rule dispute (and by rules dispute, I think this time it was just a botched call by the umps). So the Brewers snapped their 9 game winning streak last night losing to the Padres 2-1. The game ended in a somewhat controversial way. With the tying run at 2nd base and 2 outs, Martin Maldanado made contact with a ball that bounced right near home plate, and has he turned to run to first, the ball struck him. The umpire called Maldanado out and the game was over. The problem, however, is that Maldanado hadn't left the batters box yet, and was doing nothing out of the ordinary that would cause his action to be exempted from this rule. Roenicke argued the call, to no avail obviously, and blasted the umps (insomuch as Roenicke is capable of showing any sort of anger ever) in the post game press conference. If this had happened in a playoff game, or in Yankee stadium, or both, the umpire in question would be given witness protection. But here? just another blown call that will be forgotten to history.

Speaking of sketchy umpiring, in the previous game, a Padres hitter attempted to check his swing with 2 strikes; the bat, however, went nearly 2/3 to 3/4 of the way around (it probably crossed homeplate buy about 30-45 degrees). The homeplate umpire called it a ball without appealing to the third base umpire. From the dugout, Roenicke claims all he yelled was "you missed it to" to the third base umpire, and for that comment alone, he got ejected (given Roenicke's track record of umpire interactions, I'm inclined to believe that he said nothing worthy of getting ejected). He said afterwards that if an ump misses an obvious call he deserves some criticism. He admitted that if he had said something inappropriate then he would accept an ejection, but he says he didn't.

In further, story closing umpire news, MLB officialy clarfied that Jean Segura should have been called out on the SeguraPalooza steal 2nd then steal 1st play from last week.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 05:21:29 PM
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You can see the Maldanado play here: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=26574707&query=game_pk%3D347056

Rule 6.05: A batter is out when -

(g) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position
in the batter’s box, see Rule 6.03, and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no
intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter
or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball

Rule 6.03: The batter’s legal position shall be with both feet within the batter’s box.
APPROVED RULING: The lines defining the box are within the batter’s box.

Link to PDF of 2013 Official Baseball Rules: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2013/official_baseball_rules.pdf


Despite what "Rock" Schroeder says in the clip, you only need one foot out of the box to be called out in that situation. Now, it's clear in the video, that his foot was at least in the air outside of the box, but it looks like the ball touched him before his foot hit the ground outside of the box. So, depending on if that makes a difference or not, you could argue either way. Just reading the rules though, I would have to say that it doesn't make a difference. Whether in the air or on the ground, his is foot is out of the batters box and, therefore, he is not in a legal batting position. I concur with the umpire's call.
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 05:36:38 PM
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The real problem is that Yuni only hit a double in the 9th instead of another HR. What a fail.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
04/25/2013 @ 06:37:07 PM
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Also, I'm not sure his foot was actually out of the batters box anyway. The outside edge of the white stripe (which is mostly rubbed out by this point in the game, anyway) is still part of the batters box. Either way, I still stand by my gripe with the call. If you are going to end a game on a play like that, you better be darn sure that you are 100% sure about yourself. But the way the series went (even though the Brewers took 2 of 3), the Brewers had pretty much every close call go against them, including this one.
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Scott screwed with this 3 times, last at 04/25/2013 7:08:15 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 07:05:20 PM
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Rule 6.06 a says the following:
A batter is out for illegal action when—
(a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box

Now legal position is defined as "The batter’s legal position shall be with both feet within the batter’s box."

It seems to be that this would suggest that you must make contact with the ground in order to not be in a legal position in the batters box. I would need a rules expert to interpret this a little closer. But even reading it more closely makes me think that you are still in the batters box "legally" until you make contact with the ground outside of it.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 07:24:30 PM
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And for what it's worth, Bill Schroeder isn't necessarily the person you want to listen to when looking for in depth, intelligent analysis.
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2887.gifAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
04/25/2013 @ 09:02:46 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:24:30 PM
And for what it's worth, Bill Schroeder isn't necessarily the person you want to listen to when looking for in depth, intelligent analysis.


No, but I'll take him over Jon McGlocklin and Jim Paschke any day and twice on Tuesday.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 09:39:23 PM
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Brain Anderson is a gem of an announcer (in my opinion). So we've got that going for us.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 11:47:23 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:05:20 PM
Rule 6.06 a says the following:
A batter is out for illegal action when—
(a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box

Now legal position is defined as "The batter’s legal position shall be with both feet within the batter’s box."

It seems to be that this would suggest that you must make contact with the ground in order to not be in a legal position in the batters box. I would need a rules expert to interpret this a little closer. But even reading it more closely makes me think that you are still in the batters box "legally" until you make contact with the ground outside of it.


To me, that means that in the Maldanado case, the proper interpretation would be that a foot in the air outside the box, counts as outside the box. Otherwise they would have specified that it had to touch the ground as they did in rule 6.06, but they didn't, so you have to assume that touching the ground is not a requirement for being outside the batters box in that case.
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
04/25/2013 @ 11:49:55 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:24:30 PM
And for what it's worth, Bill Schroeder isn't necessarily the person you want to listen to when looking for in depth, intelligent analysis.


I would agree, but I'd also note that I like Schroeder as an announcer. Maybe that would change if I had to listen to him every game, but for the handful of Brewers games I watch each year, I like him.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
04/26/2013 @ 08:18:15 AM
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Schroeder's not that bad, he just acts on emotion sometimes, like how he was stating over and over and over again how you need both feet out of the batters box. Now, I don't hold announcers to the standard of needing to know every part of every rule at a moments notice, but that doesn't excuse you from emphatically stating something that turns out to not be true. And maybe this isn't fair, but even comparing him to Bob Ueckers baseball knowledge and insight is no comparison at all. Uecker is funny and interesting and lighthearted (and he barks at cars as they drive by my house), but he also one of the most intelligent baseball minds calling games for any team. So perhaps my by has been set too high. That being said, I do take pride in the fact that Schroeder has been calling games for nearly 20 years. (Also, he was on the AL roster for the original RBI Baseball nintendo game.)
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
04/26/2013 @ 04:01:45 PM
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I don't know where I come down. I think I agree that if they meant "foot on the ground" in 6.05 they would have said that, as evidenced in 6.06 re:hitting a ball (with the bat) outside of the box.

On the other hand, what if you had some crazy ninja leg kick out and back-in swing? I guess that doesn't matter, as 6.06 says on the ground, and 6.03 doesn't apply mid swing.

I think I'm going with in the air counts. Sort of a "breaking the plain" of the batters box.
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Jeremy messed with this at 04/26/2013 4:02:05 pm
2887.gifAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
04/26/2013 @ 07:30:08 PM
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plane
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Pie Racist
04/26/2013 @ 11:59:07 PM
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yeah yeah
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
04/30/2013 @ 09:22:09 PM
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So my opinions on MLB instant replay are quickly changing, or at least becoming more passionate, thanks to a number of doozies this year affecting the Brewers. In tonight's game, the ump blew a call at first base where a pirates runner was clearly out by about half a step. They called him safe and the inning continued. The next batter hits a homerun that was initially ruled a home run but after replay was changed to a homerun. It seems like you should have replay for a as much as possible or nothing at all. It seems patently unfair to have a system that allows a blown call at first base to go without replay, but then correct a homerun with replay that wouldn't have even happened if replay was used in the previous play.
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Scott screwed with this at 04/30/2013 9:22:52 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
05/02/2013 @ 08:42:59 AM
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I don't pretend to think this will last, nor do I think he will remain an everday player once Corey Hart returns to the lineup, but Yuniesky Betancourt is loosely on pace for about 40 home runs and 136 RBI. (I say loosely because he hasn't played everyday, and 1/6th of the way through the season he has 7 homeruns).

And Carlos Gomez is having himself a year. His OBP is .120 points higher than his career average, and he leads all of baseball in WAR at 2.3 (ESPN's version). While my guess is his performance won't last in this manner all season either, I do think he has a better chance than Yuni to continue to perform higher than his career average. I could see him batting around the .300 mark all season.
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Scott messed with this at 05/02/2013 8:43:25 am
scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
05/03/2013 @ 08:18:54 AM
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Just because it's fun, if the season ended today, Carlos Gomez would be your National League Batting Champion!
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Scott edited this at 05/03/2013 8:21:52 am
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
05/06/2013 @ 01:59:28 PM
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Braun's a superstitious guy, apparently.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - As Seen On The Internet
05/06/2013 @ 02:35:08 PM
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He always flicks the steroid needle 7 times before injecting his right butt cheek.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
05/07/2013 @ 10:19:19 AM
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He's superstitious, not OCD.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
05/07/2013 @ 11:00:05 PM
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He always flicks the steroid needle 7 times before injecting his right butt cheek, because he think's if not he'll strike out twice that night.
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newalex.jpgAlex - Refactor Mercilessly
05/14/2013 @ 11:47:57 PM
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Alex Wrote - 04/24/2013 @ 01:28:48 PM
All that coupled with his defense falling off last year and carrying into this year means that he's likely going to grade out as overpaid from 2013-2015. So if I were GM I'd at least be listening to any offers for him during any of those years were they don't seem like contenders (to at least make the playoffs). Fortunately their winning streak quashed that status for now for this year.


Or he'll be a complete boondoggle. http://ronroenickestolemybaseball.com/2013/05/14/is-rickie-weeks-a-good-player-in-a-prolonged-slump/

And they're already down to 8% playoff odds before the loss tonight...
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
05/15/2013 @ 12:19:24 AM
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This guy didn't really love the deal in the first place
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rickie-weeks-mystery-man/
but I don't think anyone saw him struggling this much with his hitting this soon (age-wise)

http://www.nutcan.com/blog.php?content_id=1282&subject=MLB_2011_Offseason
Alex Wrote - 02/16/2011 @ 01:46:14 PM
Weeks signs extension emoticon

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6128467

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/brewers-weeks-agree-to-extension.html

I don't think they really got a "sale" price or anything, but as long as he stays healthy he should be worth it. He was worth $24.3 last year according to fangraphs. Still strikeouts too much but I'm holding onto hope that he could push 30 steals.

Scott Wrote - 02/16/2011 @ 01:54:22 PM
Wasn't Rickie your Robert Ferguson of the Brewers for a while? Anyway, I too think this is good (I don't know if it is, but I think it is). Certainly he performed better last year than in previous years, and his injuries in the past were somewhat fluky. Anyway, I think there is something to be said about solidifying a core of somesort and with Braun, Hart, Gallardo, and now Weeks, they have a fairly solid core of youngish players locked in for at least 4 years.


Classic Ferguson reference. Also he's added 5% in Ks this year compared to my comment, and clearly I meant pushing 30 steals over those 4 years total. Only 1 to go!
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newalex.jpgAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
05/31/2013 @ 09:31:44 AM
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It happened. The Twins miniscule playoff odds are now higher than the Brewers. Congrats I guess http://www.baseballprospectus.com/odds/
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
06/12/2013 @ 08:26:10 AM
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Greinke's in the middle of a scrum again, and again, his adversary will likely get a huge suspension. Read the story for details if you don't know them, but the short version is that Ian Kennedy hit a Dodger player on the nose. It was probably an accident. Soon after words, Greinke throws almost behind a D-Backs batter and hits him in the small in the back. Both benches get warned. Should Greinke had thrown behind a player in retaliation? In my opinion, probably not. Was it intentional, almost certainly. But it was, as the article I posted puts it, "done in honorable baseball tradition, thrown where Montero couldn't get hurt." (I'm not an advocate of baseball retribution, but it is what it is) Several innings later, Kennedy uncorks a 92 mph fastball directly at Greinke head, knocking his helmet off. Emotions will get the better of people sometimes, and Greinke didn't help himself by throwing at the d-backs player as he did, but Kennedy threw a fastball at a guys head. In the era of player protection, especially regarding head injuries, throwing high heat with the obvious intention of hitting the guy should not be played around with. Kennedy needs to miss some starts for this. I'm not doubting that he will.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
07/09/2013 @ 11:16:54 AM
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Carlos Gomez is a home run stealing machine. He is starting to get more national attention, and I think Gomez is on his way to a gold glove this season. At least, he should be.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_07_08_cinmlb_milmlb_1&mode=video&content_id=28736049&tcid=vpp_copy_28736049
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Scott perfected this at 07/09/2013 11:20:51 am
newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
07/09/2013 @ 01:03:50 PM
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Forget Gold Glove, how about MVP? Without Gomez the Brewers would be horri...nevermind that. He does have half the team's positional WAR though.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/11/2013 @ 10:22:08 AM
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If there really is "more to the story" that Braun isn't telling because he claims it would be "bad for baseball" (that is, the initial story about the failed drug test) but yet would convince everyone that he is indeed innocent, we might be getting close to the point of this information being necessarily spoken of. A 100 game suspension would be a dangerous precedent for baseball, but would pretty much cost the Brewers any hope (if there was any) for next year as well as this year. I still question how baseball has come up with justification to suspend players for 1st and 2nd offenses, when they don't have proof of the first offense, and then they are claiming that the player lied about something they don't have proof about. On top of all this, the "proof" that they claim to have most likely is coming from a guy that everyone on the planet seems to believe has zero credibility for anything.

Personally, I think at a certain level, the current investigation, the leaks, and the witch-hunt like percepetion of this seems to be just as damaging to baseball as the apparent actions of the players they are investigating.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - No one's gay for Moleman
07/11/2013 @ 01:26:20 PM
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But what's "in it" for baseball to "witch hunt" Braun? A guy who, up until his failed test, was their shining example of the post steroid era. Whatever "dirt" they might be scrambling to cover up that Braun might know, suspending him 100 games is probably the worst thing they could do to make sure he keeps his mouth shut. The fact that it makes them look bad/as bad/worse is all the less reason for it to be any sort of conspiracy to "get" Braun and others.

Anything is possible, but Occam's razor would suggest they wanted/want to suspend him because he did something worthy of suspension, for which they have as much reason to believe and evidence of the infraction as any other player they've ever suspended.
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2887.gifAlex - Who controls the past now controls the future
07/11/2013 @ 01:32:30 PM
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Alex Wrote - 07/09/2013 @ 01:03:50 PM
Forget Gold Glove, how about MVP? Without Gomez the Brewers would be horri...nevermind that. He does have half the team's positional WAR though.


Actually he has 41% of the team's total WAR right now too since their pitching has been largely pitiful.

But going by that measure Jason Castro of the Astros actually has more WAR (2.2) than the team total .7 (even with him in the total).
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/11/2013 @ 01:34:36 PM
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The 100 games doesn't make any sense, if it's going to be 50 then just get it over with this year.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/11/2013 @ 01:46:58 PM
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It makes some sense, but I'm not sure it will stick. It does present an interesting predicament though. Does Braun "admit it" and get it over with in this probably lost season, or does he risk it and try to weasel out of the unweasel-out-able yet again, but risk serving the whole thing when it might matter.

Prediction: It goes to 50 games, and he takes it asap, in some sort of pseudo plea bargain. However, he maintains it's bullcrap all the while.
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Jeremy edited this at 07/11/2013 1:54:22 pm
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
07/11/2013 @ 02:04:55 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 01:26:20 PM
Anything is possible, but Occam's razor would suggest they wanted/want to suspend him because he did something worthy of suspension, for which they have as much reason to believe and evidence of the infraction as any other player they've ever suspended.


I'm not suggesting that it's some sort of conspiracy. I am suggesting that the investigation looks on the surface like a vendetta. Perhaps it is the leaks that are putting Braun's name at the top, and treating it as if he (and ARod) are the only ones affected. But I don't recall baseball ever suspending someone for something other than a failed drug test (which in Braun's case, can't be used as "evidence" since his failed test was essentially overturned). So your suggestion that they have as much evidence of the infraction as any other player they've ever suspended is likely not true. If they suspend him and the rest, they will be doing something that baseball hasn't done yet with regards to their drug policy. In other words, there is no precedent for what they might do (as far as I know, anyway), based on the rumors.

I would place bets that Jeremy's prediction is the most likely scenario. It would be hard to see the MLBPA allowing baseball to essentially make up a punishment.
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Scott edited this at 07/11/2013 2:08:30 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children.
07/11/2013 @ 02:30:56 PM
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I don't see the MLBPA "allowing" it either, but I'm not sure it's entirely "made up" either. Though, I can certainly see the argument that it would be unfair.

I guess a person could look at it this way. Let's say you're on trial for murder. You're found not guilty because the prosecution rushed the case. Then other evidence comes out, or you admit it, or whatever. You can't be prosecuted again because of double jeopardy rules. Cut to a year later, and you're being charged for a different murder, and the judge has leeway on sentencing. Although you can't be retroactively put in jail for the first one, it makes sense to me, on some level, to consider you a repeat offender, r at least aim for the harsher end of the allowed spectrum, if you're convicted on the 2nd one. You're not in jail because of other rules, not related to the likelihood/evidence you actually did it. We have those rules for good reasons, but it ultimately is what it is. The penalty is being dictated by the entity largely in charge of making them up as they go anyway. It would be different if there was a law that said "A first murder is 20-40 max, a second murder can be up to life" and the Judge wanted to up jump his tier.

Braun and Arod are being "singled out" in the media because a) they've been in the media for the same thing before b) because they're the biggest names. Bud Selig isn't writing the headlines.

Also, even if it's true that baseball has "never suspended for anything other than failed tests", Braun and Arod are still being suspended for the same thing as the other players from this investigation that will, reportedly, be suspended. In my mind it's hard to argue that there's any kind of vendetta out against Braun when 10-20 other guys are about to go down for the same thing, especially seeing as we have even more reason to doubt Braun is clean than, say, Danny Valencia. Even if every guy on the original list doesn't go down, and some others that weren't do, it likely just means that they found further reasons.

Indeed, maybe the whole system is flawed, but there's really no reason what-so-ever to look at all the guys that have been, and will be, suspended, and pluck Braun out of that group as an innocent man baseball is out to get....for some reason....even though it makes them look really bad. They all act the same, say the same things, have really plausible stories, etc, after the fact. Tony Bosch might be as untrustworthy a guy as there is on the planet. He still has little to lie about Braun, presumably while telling the truth about the other guys.

About the only way you could spin it is "baseball trying to prove they'll stick to their 'eradicating PED' guns even if it's a face of the league." However, even then it's a pretty big black eye to have the guy they put up on a pedestal as a "good guy" turn out to not be, so they really have little reason to go down that avenue unless they were sure. Selig might be taking Braun's fall more personally, but no matter how you slice it baseball had no reason to push Braun off, and every reason to want to keep him up there. (Really, if anything in the cloak and dagger realm, they had every reason to cover up any wrongdoing by Braun.)
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Jeremy screwed with this 11 times, last at 07/11/2013 5:54:56 pm
2887.gifAlex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret
07/11/2013 @ 07:42:22 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:30:56 PM
b) because they're the biggest names.


This for sure, which some local media don't really seem to get.

Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:30:56 PM
Tony Bosch might be as untrustworthy a guy as there is on the planet. He still has little to lie about Braun, presumably while telling the truth about the other guys.


Except for MLB dropping potential lawsuits against him and pledging to help protect him against possible criminal charges. Other than that, anything he says about any players is totally believable...
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
07/11/2013 @ 08:10:26 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:30:56 PM
About the only way you could spin it is "baseball trying to prove they'll stick to their 'eradicating PED' guns even if it's a face of the league." However, even then it's a pretty big black eye to have the guy they put up on a pedestal as a "good guy" turn out to not be, so they really have little reason to go down that avenue unless they were sure. Selig might be taking Braun's fall more personally, but no matter how you slice it baseball had no reason to push Braun off, and every reason to want to keep him up there. (Really, if anything in the cloak and dagger realm, they had every reason to cover up any wrongdoing by Braun.)


Or they could be going after him harder for the very reason that they DID hold him up as the "good guy", and now since he had the failed drug test that was thrown out on appeal they want to stick it even harder to him for the perceived betrayal. It can go both ways.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/11/2013 @ 08:13:53 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 07:42:22 PM

Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:30:56 PM
Tony Bosch might be as untrustworthy a guy as there is on the planet. He still has little to lie about Braun, presumably while telling the truth about the other guys.


Except for MLB dropping potential lawsuits against him and pledging to help protect him against possible criminal charges. Other than that, anything he says about any players is totally believable...


I was going to type this earlier, but then didn't, but now I will.

I can imagine how that conversation might have gone:
MLB: "Did you sell drugs to Braun"
Bosch: "No, he just used me as a consultant for his appeal, but it took him a while to pay me back"
MLB: "Hmm, what if we dropped our lawsuit and helped get the feds off your case, did you sell drugs to Braun now?"
Bosch: "Oh, did you say sell DRUGS to Braun? I thought you said HUGS. Yeah, I sold Braun all sorts of drugs."

Basically, nothing Bosch says should be held up as credible for any reason, even if there is no reason for him to lie about any particular person. MLB is practically treating Bosch like some kind of hero.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I hate our freedoms
07/12/2013 @ 09:26:42 AM
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Alex Wrote - Yesterday @ 07:42:22 PM
Except for MLB dropping potential lawsuits against him and pledging to help protect him against possible criminal charges. Other than that, anything he says about any players is totally believable...


Right, but again, there's really nothing beyond "I want to believe" speculation for us to reach in to that sack of truth, half truths, or lies and single out Braun as "he must be lying". Bosch is credible, as far as this goes, or he's not. Like 20 players are about to go down because of this. You can criticize MLB for doing what they did to get this info, but on the other hand people could have been just as critical if they didn't do enough to get to the bottom of it. Either way, to play this off as some kind of "Braun witch hunt" is kind of silly. The closest Braun comes to getting singled out is getting double the suspension for lying about it (or possibly because it wasn't his first rodeo with dragging MLB into the PED mess) , and for all we know even that isn't unfair, because it's possible all the other guys, except for Arod, saw the writing on the wall and fessed up at their interviews.
Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 08:10:26 PM
Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:30:56 PM
About the only way you could spin it is "baseball trying to prove they'll stick to their 'eradicating PED' guns even if it's a face of the league." However, even then it's a pretty big black eye to have the guy they put up on a pedestal as a "good guy" turn out to not be, so they really have little reason to go down that avenue unless they were sure. Selig might be taking Braun's fall more personally, but no matter how you slice it baseball had no reason to push Braun off, and every reason to want to keep him up there. (Really, if anything in the cloak and dagger realm, they had every reason to cover up any wrongdoing by Braun.)


Or they could be going after him harder for the very reason that they DID hold him up as the "good guy", and now since he had the failed drug test that was thrown out on appeal they want to stick it even harder to him for the perceived betrayal. It can go both ways.


Which I said. However there's really no "play" I see to go down this avenue in the first place with him. There's no "conspiracy" angle that covers associating Braun with PEDs in the first place that I see.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 07/12/2013 9:27:15 am
scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
07/12/2013 @ 09:48:31 AM
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I didn't intend to imply that it was solely a Braun witch hunt. I know I mentioned it seems like a vendetta, but I didn't mean that necessarily specifically against Braun. But regardless of that, even with the 20 guys, the fact that they are going to such lengths to lean on the word of a guy like Bosch makes it seem like they are desperate. If the guys they are investigating were so guilty, they would have failed a drug test (no jokes about Braun's issue, please). But they are so desperate to prove these guys are guilty that they are turning a quack stip mall doctor running his business from a spiral notebook into an expert, unimpeachable witness. Basically, they seem to be stooping pretty low to obtain their ends.

So I don't necessarily think they are "going after" Braun, and I don't think I ever actually said that* (although I can see how it might have been interpretted that way**). What I meant was, the broad story makes MLB look as bad or worse than the players they are trying to indict.

*Even so, it isn't an unreasonable stretch of the imagination to think that Braun wouldn't be some sort of prize for MLB, since he "got away" in the first place.

**Actually, upon further review of my recent comments, I never said anything about this being about Braun specifically. I used the term "witch hunt", but in context, I was referring to the perception of it being a witch hunt in the grand scheme of the story as a whole. So I'm pretty sure Jeremy's points are moot when addressing my comments, because I wasn't agruing what he is trying to refute, your honor.
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Scott screwed with this 7 times, last at 07/12/2013 10:13:21 am
scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
07/12/2013 @ 09:58:27 AM
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Another thing about this whole story I would like to have answered, and maybe asking this question on NutCan is unproductive, but how would something like this be different from the Mitchell report? That report actually reported on failed drug tests, yet it was never allowed to be used to suspend players. How is this story, which will likely not include any drug tests, be used to suspend players when that previous report wasn't?
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
07/12/2013 @ 10:15:44 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 09:26:42 AM

Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 08:10:26 PM
Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:30:56 PM
About the only way you could spin it is "baseball trying to prove they'll stick to their 'eradicating PED' guns even if it's a face of the league." However, even then it's a pretty big black eye to have the guy they put up on a pedestal as a "good guy" turn out to not be, so they really have little reason to go down that avenue unless they were sure. Selig might be taking Braun's fall more personally, but no matter how you slice it baseball had no reason to push Braun off, and every reason to want to keep him up there. (Really, if anything in the cloak and dagger realm, they had every reason to cover up any wrongdoing by Braun.)


Or they could be going after him harder for the very reason that they DID hold him up as the "good guy", and now since he had the failed drug test that was thrown out on appeal they want to stick it even harder to him for the perceived betrayal. It can go both ways.


Which I said. However there's really no "play" I see to go down this avenue in the first place with him. There's no "conspiracy" angle that covers associating Braun with PEDs in the first place that I see.


My bad. Although, in my defense, you sometimes have a way of saying things that takes about 14 re-reads to figure out exactly what it is you are attempting to say.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/12/2013 @ 11:17:54 AM
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emoticon
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - As Seen On The Internet
07/12/2013 @ 12:23:04 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 09:58:27 AM
Another thing about this whole story I would like to have answered, and maybe asking this question on NutCan is unproductive, but how would something like this be different from the Mitchell report? That report actually reported on failed drug tests, yet it was never allowed to be used to suspend players. How is this story, which will likely not include any drug tests, be used to suspend players when that previous report wasn't?


Maybe they found something really damning. Though, it might be something along the lines of the Mitchell Report being the thing that brought about revisions, changes, rules, etc in the first place. So maybe they weren't technically in violation of anything at the time. Or that the report told the story that usage was so rampant and systemic that at some point MLB itself had to bear some culpability.
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matt.jpgMatt - Washington Bureau Chief
07/12/2013 @ 10:38:47 PM
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Yeah, I think the Mitchell Report caused MLB to change their procedures and punishments on PEDs. Somethings, I think, they were able to do unilaterally, others they then had to negotiate with the players union for .
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
07/15/2013 @ 01:15:38 PM
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If MLB does say that they have enough proof of multiple incidences and want to treat it as, at least, a second offense for Braun (what I'm assuming by all the 100 game talk), shouldn't it be that he really serves at least 150 games (combining the penalties for a first and second offense)?
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
07/15/2013 @ 03:38:11 PM
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If it turns out to be just 50 games, can he serve it retroactive to June 1, or whenever it was that he went on the DL for a month?

The problem I have with counting it as 2 offenses is this:
They aren't basing the infractions on a positive drug test. We'll all have to wait and see what what "evidence" comes out of the the spiral notebooks that Bosch kept his ledger in, but that's another story, I suppose. What I really have a problem with is if they do count what they have as 2 offenses, then Braun, not yet 30 years old, is one honest mistake away from being banned for life for something that they probably never were able to prove definitively in the first place, and something he possibly never did at all anyway. It seems sketchy to hit a guy twice when you were never really able to prove the first thing, and now this "second" offense is that you are claiming he lied about the first thing. But, we're all in a wait-and-see pattern for now, I suppose.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/16/2013 @ 12:53:03 PM
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There are some tweets going around quoting Mike Weinder, the head of the MLBPA that the players involved in the Biogenesis investigation may not be bound by the drug agreement; so players could get 5 games or 500 games suspensions. I hope baseball treads carefully with this.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
07/22/2013 @ 04:48:01 PM
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Braun suspended 65 games. Supposedly he admitted to it as well, but I've yet to find a link to specifically what he said, as opposed to some guys take on what he said.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/22/2013 @ 04:58:10 PM
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Statement:

“As I have acknowledged in the past, I am not perfect. I realize now that I have made some mistakes. I am willing to accept the consequences of those actions. This situation has taken a toll on me and my entire family, and it is has been a distraction to my teammates and the Brewers organization. I am very grateful for the support I have received from players, ownership and the fans in Milwaukee and around the country. Finally, I wish to apologize to anyone I may have disappointed – all of the baseball fans especially those in Milwaukee, the great Brewers organization, and my teammates. I am glad to have this matter behind me once and for all, and I cannot wait to get back to the game I love.”

If that's the entirety of his "confession" then I'm not sure I agree with the take that he fell to his knees and told the public he's a dirty cheat and begged for their forgiveness. The true believers still have plenty of wiggle room there. (For example, by "mistakes" he means "going to Bosch for help with the first BS failed test.")

Tom Haudricourt and others seem to be reading into the lack of an appeal more than anything else, but seeing as he'd almost be stupid to appeal even if he was innocent, I'm sure many will still point hold out hope he's actually clean and just getting framed by someone.

"....union executive director Michael Weiner said the union wouldn't resort to the appeals process if overwhelming evidence was uncovered against any player that made a suspension inevitable.

Because Braun accepted the penalty after previously saying many times he never had used PEDs, the MLB investigation must have presented him with overwhelming evidence from the Biogenesis investigation. ...."
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Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 07/22/2013 5:05:58 pm
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/22/2013 @ 06:59:33 PM
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Have heard this multiple times with various athletes, and just again on the radio with Braun. Player x, who has some prior history with or accusations of PED use but is clean now, is doing just as well as before but hasn't been healthy lately. This is stated in such a way as to say, "The player is still pretty much as good as when they were allegedly using." And then as an afterthought, "But they can't seem to stay healthy."

Shouldn't those dots be connected? Obviously I'm no doctor but it seems to me that the biggest effect of a lot of PEDs are keeping guys in the game more often and for more years (moreso than making a 40 AB/HR guy a 15 AB/HR guy). Maybe that's too general as overgrown NFL players are maybe more likely to beat the crap out of each other and a pitcher with a superhuman arm might be more likely to blow it out, but for MLB position players I think it holds true.

With Braun, it will be interesting to see how many more details come out. Seems pretty likely that the failed drug test was a real failed drug test, and it was at the time of the year that guys are probably looking for something to keep them healthy. So I think there's a decent chance that he hasn't been a long term user.

For the Brewers, this doesn't seem to bad, at least in terms of the roster. Braun has been hurt this year so they can shut him down. They can give playing time to some other out fielders and find out where those guys are at, maybe someone makes Aoki expendable in a trade. And they don't have to pay Braun so there's that. At this point they might as well lose a bunch for drafting purposes, although sweeping the Marlins didn't really help in that regard. Losing Braun really doesn't matter on the field this year.

Off the field, it's a bigger problem. Ticket and merch sales are likely to drop. Unless everyone burns their Braun jerseys and goes and gets a Gomez or Segura. So really merch is probably fine, but ticket sales this year and beyond could be negatively affected.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9500252/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-suspended-remainder-2013-season
"Braun, after realizing the significance of the evidence against him from questions in the first meeting, decided to meet again to strike a deal that would limit his suspension to this season, according to the source."
Good enough for me, I won't have to burn my jerseyish T-shirt. Taking one for the team. Sort of.

Then there's this comment, which I also thought of right away (although I was not thinking on an apostrophe):

Dylan Payne · Full Sail University
"... and any potential postseason games this year."

At least us Brewer's fans can get one good laugh out of this article.
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Alex screwed with this 2 times, last at 07/22/2013 7:03:39 pm
thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
07/22/2013 @ 08:17:43 PM
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So... Does Braun have herpes or not? emoticon
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
07/22/2013 @ 09:13:27 PM
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ive-made-a-huge-mistake.gif
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
07/22/2013 @ 09:59:18 PM
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*
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/22/2013 @ 10:41:15 PM
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There are some teachable moments in all of this, not the least if which is the interview session of Jonathan Lucroy after tonight's game. If it was indeed genuine, for a guy who admitted that he was duped, he responded with a rather amazing sense of grace, humility, and forgiveness, since, in his words, "none of y'all are perfect." If I get a link to the video, I'll post it. I myself feel duped, but I'm also a strong believer in redemption. I would hope that if I fell that far from grace that there would be people around me who would respond the way Lucroy responded when everything came down around me. That's my initial take on all this.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/24/2013 @ 08:20:21 AM
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In the realm of teachable moments (I suppose having a kid makes me look at these situations differently now), I'm not sure how I would explain to my son which is worse: Braun using PEDs (if he in fact did), Braun lying about it, or the sportwriters piling on mercilessly about what a pathetic excuse for a human being Braun is. I understand that he brought most of this on himself (most likely) and that Braun is deserving of some harsh reactions, but that doesn't mean that the outsiders are obligated to one-up the next guy in their vitriol.

Maybe having something close to home happen has made me view this differently, but the collective character of the nation's sports writers has been shown, and frankly, I feel that along with not having my kid use athletes as role models, I probably should also tell them to disregard sports writers too. Expressing anger, disappointment, frustration, and a whole range of emotions is one thing. Showing hatred and a "he can never redeem himself so he might as well not even try" type of attitude is equally despicable, in my opinion. Frankly, the only winners in this story seem to be the Brewer players and management who have held their tongues and shown mercy and grace through this whole thing. If anyone has a reason to be upset and feel betrayed, it's them.

Like everyone else, I am hoping we find out the whole story. I hope for his sake Braun stands up in front of the cameras and tells the whole story, answers the questions, takes his lumps, admits he was wrong (assuming this is all true), and makes moves to regain the trust of his teammates, the fans, and the league. Unlike guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Palmero, and even the eventual fallout for ARod, Braun still has 5-10 years left as a player, and as such has an opportunity to possibly redeem himself. He will likely be the most hated man in baseball where ever he goes, but over time, hopefully with the truth brought to light, he can mend his fences and be a respectable player on and off the field again.
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Scott perfected this at 07/24/2013 8:29:05 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/24/2013 @ 12:44:03 PM
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Braun took mint flavored lozenges containing testosterone starting after an injury sustained in a game against the Twins in July of 2011.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children.
07/24/2013 @ 05:11:02 PM
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The reaction does seem to be over the top with a bit of "I have to be even more pissed than the last guy" mixed in.

I think he brought most of the reaction on himself with the way he handled it after the fact than the actual infraction. I think "the media" is willing to forgive if you mean it. They might not completely forgive you, you might not get in the hall someday, it might always be attached to you, but lying about it "to their face" makes it worse. (See Palmeiro.) Lying about it and then a late insincere apology makes it even worse. (See Rose)

Doing both of those things, and then throwing in "tried to ruin a man's livelihood" to boot makes it even worse. He was quick to gather the press to lie to them face to face, and throw an actually innocent man just doing his job under the bus, when "exonerated", but now that he's suspended, he only issues lame stock apology, that still partially cast himself as a victim, and is barely even an apology.

Reportedly his teammates are pissed, but then again, they aren't exactly as free to express that. I'm sure the team has muzzled them, and there's politics of still needing to play with the guy and the fact that they can be mad/betrayed and be friends.

We're a forgiving society. He'd have been booed a while. There would have been articles condemning him written, and so on. I think his handling of it, more than actually doing it, earned the "scorched earth" response from the media.

That said, I think it will be old news for the most part fairly quickly. It will come up come all star time and some don't think he belongs anymore, when Matt Kemp comes to town, when the Hall of Fame comes up, he'll be booed his first round through every town, and so on, but I don't know if he'll be the "most hated man in baseball".

Edit: for the record I think the main point of the article I linked is stupid. Why would Arod admit to a crime before the verdict is in?
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Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 07/24/2013 5:19:57 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/24/2013 @ 09:08:04 PM
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They are talking about it in the Brewers broadcast and it sounds like there might be pretty tight restrictions about what Braun might even be able to say, which could be why he hasn't said anything other than his written statement. As far as his teammates go, perhaps their pissed. Certainly some are probably a little hurt by it. This is probably somewhat typical among major league teams, but the Brewers have a bunch of guys who have played together for a long long time, going back to the minors. Yovani Gallardo apparently still thinks that Braun didn't do anything. Lucroy seems hurt, but he was all about forgiveness. Weeks was asked what he wanted, and he answered "the truth." Roenicke is all about forgiveness, but also about being accountable and addressing the media "when he can", partially to take the pressure of his teammates who are getting all the questions.


*for what it's worth, we still don't really even know exactly what he did. For all we know, there may be a some truth to some of the things he has said in the past. The point is, we don't know very much.
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Scott edited this at 07/24/2013 9:09:19 pm
newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
07/25/2013 @ 11:38:31 AM
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Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 09:08:04 PM
Weeks was asked what he wanted, and he answered "the truth."


Ok Rickie, the truth is you're overpaid and everyone in the organization is trying to figure how to make sure your 2015 option doesn't vest. You'll probably get hurt during 2014 anyway and not get anywhere near 600 PA, but just in case get prepared to spend the whole year hitting 8th! Actually, you can bat 9th on days when Gallardo starts. And then maybe platoon some with Gennett. So many options...
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/25/2013 @ 02:27:39 PM
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For the Nutcan record:

There have been lots of calls to push MLB toward working out a deal whereby teams can void a player's contract if he's ever busted with PEDs. I'm not on board with this idea. As it stands now, really only bad things can come for everyone involved with PEDs. Yes, the Brewers pocket an extra 3 million bucks, but that's not enough to motivate anyone to much. Plus it's not like it's a lock that the Brewers would do anything about it if they could. He's still a good ball player, and you'd just be letting him go someplace else. So far the contract was a good deal for Braun and the team.

However, that isn't the case a lot of the time, which could effect motive. Braun's defense was that someone could theoretically be out to get him, for some reason. Such thoughts wouldn't look like crazed grasping at straws in the context of an unpopular player who's contract was crippling his current team, if said team could now void the whole deal. A lot of the time those guys are disliked, or actively hated, by the fans. I'm not saying the order would come from inside the front office, but there are about 100 million reasons a guy like Josh Hamilton might actually get a target placed on him with this change. Teams regretting monster contracts is more the rule than the exception, it seems.

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Jeremy perfected this 2 times, last at 07/25/2013 2:53:17 pm
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/25/2013 @ 03:45:30 PM
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Ryan Howard definitely wouldn't be safe eating at Subway in Philly.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/25/2013 @ 11:25:09 PM
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Yeah. It's a little surprising he is now as it is.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
07/26/2013 @ 10:42:25 AM
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The latest reports about Braun's ability to talk confirm what I stated earlier. It sounds like part of the deal he struck with the suspension is that he can't talk about it until they are done with the investigation. I don't know if that means his part of the investigation, or the entire investigation. And then I'm not sure if that means he'll be able to talk in the coming weeks or if it will be into the offseason. I hope for his sake and everyone else's that he can talk sooner rather than later.

Owner Mark Attanasio has put up a good foundation from which to start the healing process. He spoke to reporters a couple nights ago and really didn't dodge any of the tough questions, and certainly wasn't apologetic or defensive of Braun. What he did say is that Braun can and will redeem himself, and that it will not be an easy process or something that will happen quickly. The gut reaction among fans right now is that they won't forgive Braun. I don't believe that will be the case, however. Humans can be incredibly proud sometimes, and the desire to not let a guy back in can be an emotional response to a clearly emotional situation. However, I believe that given time and a large amount of goodwill from Braun, and hopefully success on the field to go along with it, Braun can redeem his reputation with Brewers fans. How he goes about redeeming himself in the national spotlight is another story. However, in my opinion, regaining the trust and goodwill of the local fanbase is far more important at this point than anything regarding the national fans and media. It's like a wayward son. The people outside of the family whom he hurt may never forgive him, but those within the family should and will be his biggest supporters and generally should want to see him succeed and prosper. In my opinion, the true character of a person comes out in how he or she responds to trials like this, even if those trials are self inflicted.

For those wondering, I will not be one to deface my Braun paraphernalia.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
08/05/2013 @ 02:20:26 PM
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I wonder what would have happened if Braun had lost to Kemp in the 2011 MVP vote. I wonder if Braun was worried about the implications of having a positive drug test that would have pointed to use during his MVP season, and figured if he could beat it he would just live that lie. I wonder if he would have lost the MVP race, would he possibly have taken the suspension. Seeing Nelson Cruz's statement about having an illness that led to an 'error in judgment", I wonder if Braun could have kept a more positive reputation had he said he was nursing an ailing hamstring and suffered an "error in judgment" in an attempt to promote healing. We'll never know, I guess.

On that note, Cruz is getting quite a bit of flack for his statement. People apparently want players to come out and simply say that they woke up one day and decided they were going to be big cheaters and liers and think of the worst way they could screw over every other player in the game. I, personally, would challenge anyone who has ever done something they aren't proud of to really think about whether or not they did it with malice in forethought, or that they set out with evil intentions. It's possible to "cheat" and "make a mistake" or "have a lapse in judgement" with the same action. If a player comes out and does simply come out and say "I cheated", does that make it any better? Does that make anyone trust that player any more? Fans that sit on the sidelines and lay down judgement on players for their response to wrongdoings are likely no different than the players they condemn.
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Scott perfected this at 08/05/2013 2:29:08 pm
scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
08/05/2013 @ 02:35:02 PM
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although, as a wrote this, Jhonny Peralta did almost exactly that, issuing a statement to end all statements.

“In spring of 2012, I made a terrible mistake that I deeply regret,” Peralta said in a released statement. “I apologize to everyone that I have hurt as a result of my mistake, including my teammates, the Tigers’ organization, the great fans in Detroit, Major League Baseball, and my family. I take full responsibility for my actions, have no excuses for my lapse in judgment, and I accept my suspension.

“I love the fans, my teammates and this organization, and my greatest punishment is knowing that I have let so many good people down. I promise to do everything possible to try and earn back the respect that I have lost.”



http://www.freep.com/article/20130805/SPORTS02/308050092/jhonny-peralta-suspended-detroit-tigers-biogenesis
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist
08/08/2013 @ 09:00:16 AM
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I mean, I think for the most part people would still feel that these players are no longer due accolades, or at least have that conversation in play. There would probably be less vitriol if he didn't steal the MVP and then throw a working stiff under a parade of buses, but even that has probably faded down to a relative level of homeostasis it would otherwise be at. We have the attention spans of gnats, and we have Arod to talk about now.

It does surprise me how almost every Brewers fan I've talked to about it wants him off/cut from the team. I'm not sure I would feel like that about Joe Mauer or Adrian Peterson. When Chris Cook was going through his little snafu, wherein he choked his girlfriend within an inch of her life, everyone wanted him off the team too, and I can certainly feel where they're coming from. I guess the way I feel about things like this is that those players WOULD go on to play somewhere. They'd get picked up by the competition, and in the process of "getting a second chance" they'd make the competition better, while meanwhile leaving you with a hole to fill. I've never understood why people are good with "second chances" but it's basically viewed as a "must" that the current team has to cut guys that ef up big time. Why can't the "second chance" come from the same/original team? *

Also, while trying not to be cynical about how "they're all a bunch of nogoodniks", I try not to make players more than they are.

* Though I won't be buying a Cook jersey anytime soon.
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Jeremy edited this 5 times, last at 08/08/2013 9:11:07 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/08/2013 @ 10:33:34 AM
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I agree with the sentiment behind all that. I don't want Braun cut for a bunch of reasons:
1) he cheated and lied, he didn't go on a mass murderous rampage and hose down a kindergarten. Call me a relativist, but I won't say he's a threat to society or beyond a reasonable amount of redemption. I've told some lies in my day, and farbe it for me to pass judgement an banish a guy from my team for something I could easily have gotten caught up in myself had I been in his shoes.
2) the brewers owe him like $100 million, and my reasons for my first point aren't bad enough to warrant putting the franchise in jeopardy for the long term. It's not that the money makes him more valuable than a lesser paid player, but it would be an even crueler blow to have a guy do what Braun did and then have his actions hurt the team for years to come. Some of his "penance" should be to face the fans you betrayed, most of whom stuck by you through the whole thing.
3) the response from the manager, gm, and owner seem to indicate that Braun is in a very good place, if not undeserving place, to achieve redemption. Attanasio might be doing all this to save face and redeem his investment, but regardless of his motives, he has stood up to the media, answered all the tough questions, not defended or excused Braun's actions, and has told Braun that wants to be front and center with him to face the music and work to rebuild the trust with the fans.
4) Braun is a really good ball player. He hit 37 homers as a rookie while batting .324 or something like that. Sure there's a chance he was juicing since college, but all reports seem to indicate that he started halfway through 2011 in response to an injury. I don't see him suddenly turning into a AA player. I don't mean to suggest that a bad player wouldn't be worthy of a second chance. I more so mean to indicate that in spite of his past actions, he is a fun player to watch and helps the brewers win, and really that has a positive impact in the community.
5) fans (and humans everywhere) need to learn how to forgive. What good is it to harbor resentment and hold a grudge for anyone over a long term. When Braun returns, there undoubtedly will be fans who are angry, hurt, or what have you. Over time hopefully Braun can earn the trust back, but fans should learn that making mistakes, even if they are long term, reprehensible mistakes, is not grounds for absolute dismissal. I think there are a lot of teachable moments throughout all of this.

Like you said, fans should think of athletes of anything more than they are; they are human beings, capable of all sorts of grievousness. But I myself will waist no time and energy harboring resentment towards someone. Forgiveness is a much more fruitful endeavor.
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Scott perfected this 2 times, last at 08/08/2013 10:37:04 am
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
08/08/2013 @ 10:43:41 AM
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You don't even have to "forgive him" really. I nothing Chris Cook. I don't want him off my team because of what he did, he'd still be an NFL player, so it may as well be for us, but I'm not really going to root for him either. I'll cheer if he breaks up a pass, or gets an interception, because that's good for the team. I won't buy any Chris Cook apparel (not that there was ever much chance, really), but I'm not going to waste time "hating him" either. Hating someone is a tiring effort.

You don't have to want Braun off the team (some so badly they don't even care if the Brewers have to eat 100 mil to do it), or boo him when he comes back, but you don't have to wear your Braun J-Shirt anymore either.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/23/2013 @ 09:29:05 AM
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I can't believe Braun continues to throw his teammates, friends, managers, and other drug collectors under the bus. I would have thought it might be better to lay all the blame on his own shoulders and absolve everyone else that he put in a tough situation of any wrongdoing. I also can't believe that he thinks a written statement is a quick fix this problem. Anyone can tell that this is going to be a long, hard process of earning back people's trust. What an arrogant peice of garbage this guy is.

Oh, and I can't believe he waited until his teammates were on a plane to release his statement. Because otherwise, they would have all been able to be hounded by reporters relentlessly minutes before taking the field for a game. What a jerk.

I may have more thoughts, but the state of sports and humanity's kneejerk reactions to things is sort of sad, in my opinion. It's like the collective sports world had their response all made up and ready to send before the statement was released. It's all about the local fans now. They are the ones for whom he needs to work to rebuild his character.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
08/23/2013 @ 07:32:36 PM
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Didn't the Brewers release the statement?

As for absolving everyone else, first off, I doubt it's even true. Literally no one else connected to him knew? Did he google "Where to find PEDs"?

A lot of the same things still apply to the first statement. He rallied the troops for an in person slamming of the system that was out to get him roughly 10 seconds after he got off on a technicality. Now, once busted, he's had 2 written statements, and didn't actually explicitly acknowledge anything until a month later. A month in the era of twitter is 3 eternities. He said he's sorry, and I'm sure he is, but what is he sorry about? It's easy to be sorry after you're busted and there's nothing but ramifications. It's also safe to say his credibility is gone.

He also didn't really apologize about the handling of it, just that he deluded himself into feeling he was wronged, but now he sees that was wrong. Well...no shit. Also, how would that work, exactly? He used the word mistake to the point where you get the impression he slipped and fell into the testosterone cream. He also only cursorily apologizes to the man whose life he attempted to ruin.

As you said (I think, hard to tell what was sarcasm and what was double negative sarcasm), it would be silly to think anyone would think this apology would be any kind of quick fix, so I'm not sure why it's surprising that, in general, people consider a carefully crafted written apology a month too late it not enough to really wipe anything away.

Nothing was ever going to appease everyone.Especially when, fair or not, there are so many unanswered questions, and since then so much more has come out where if half of them are even half truths PED's in late 2011 are the least of the reasons to not like him.

There's no good way to undo something where you're so far in the wrong, especially when people are being asked to believe that someone means what they say when they're apologizing for near-pathological lying. I'm just not sure why it would be expected that it would/could/should.
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Jeremy messed with this 2 times, last at 08/23/2013 7:40:51 pm
2887.gifAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
08/25/2013 @ 01:05:46 PM
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I don't get all the people that seem to expect or demand that he do a tell all, here's a 1001 things that I did wrong type of confession. Who does that? Pretty much no one except people with absolutely nothing left to lose who want their 15 minutes. No amount of details is going to satisfy those people anyway, so there's really nothing to gain.

Whether he actually means the words in the statement is anyone's guess, but the general tone seemed like a good next step (admitting the problem).

All I'm hoping at this point is that he hasn't actually been using since college or it's going to turn out to be the worst contract extension the Brewers have ever given out.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/25/2013 @ 07:56:35 PM
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Yes, my first comment was 100% sarcasm.

Here are a few thoughts:

Everytime Braun has opened his mouth about this since day one the Brewers players have all gotten hammered by the press, so perhaps the timing of the statement was carefully planned to give his teammates a break for a change. Like the fact that the statement was released while the players were in the air. Also, the Brewers owner was out and front once the suspension was announced saying that basically he was taking control of entire "comeback tour" (so to speak), so for the people who are so strongly asserting that Braun's statement was too late, or misplaced, or the wrong medium, or poorly written, from my understanding, the Brewers head hancho is at the helm of this whole thing. Not that he couldn't be wrong too, but my guess is that the whole thing is a little more carefully planned than people are giving it credit.

Also, for those that are blasting is as "PR BS", of freaking course it is for PR. Braun is a public figure. Everything he does from this moment on is an attempt to repair relations with the public, as well as his teammates and other members of the Brewers organizations. I think people forget that.

Also, nothing Braun says can or will be enough. For those clamoring for a press conference, or a Barbara Walters interview, those things are well and good, but you know full well that even those will draw the automatic bashing for anything and everything that might add to the "well, he dodged that question" or "that was clearly rehearsed", or "what the heck does he mean he convinced himself he was wrong", or "I am a way better person than him who has never done anything wrong and if the roles were reversed I am 100% certain that I would have handled things 100% differently", or whatever. The point is, whatever his words are, they are not nor should ever be enough. He has now officially apologized. Whether or not you think he apologized correctly or stated every single thing he should have, he has apologized in word (Me myself am a better versed at the written word than I am at the spoken word, so I support the use of a written statement; it's still the English language afterall). But from this point forward, his actions around the community, on the field, and in the clubhouse are going to be what matters most in terms of repairing his relationships with those that matter most.

Those that are writing off his public reputation as permanently and forever ruined are the same ones saying that his statement was garbage, here's a guess: his statement probably wasn't intended for you then.

It is going to be a long hard process that will likely still leave many detractors all around him, including some former supporters. I think that this was a good first step to repair the damage done to those around him. And frankly, I think that for those that made it out be as bad as some are making it out to be, then you were probably looking for something that it wasn't intended to be.

Note: I've heard reports prior to this statement being released that he reached out to the drug collector. Also, I think that should be something between those two parties. Does the public really need to know about it?
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Scott messed with this 2 times, last at 08/25/2013 7:59:02 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
08/25/2013 @ 08:38:13 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:56:35 PM
Me myself am a better versed at the written word than I am at the spoken word, so I support the use of a written statement


I think though that this is partially peoples' point. A written apology can be so carefully crafted, polished, and guarded. A press conference, where he was openly answering questions from the press is, first off all, pretty symbolic right there. Secondly, I think the vulnerability and imperfection that that forum would be more likely to give rise to is the idea. Not to mention you can read his emotions, body language, etc.
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Jeremy messed with this at 08/25/2013 8:42:35 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/26/2013 @ 06:37:40 AM
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Personally, I think written statements are better for this type of thing. Why? Because it is essential that he say what he is going to say very very carefully. If he is up there just talking or answering questions, the potential for saying something that you don't actually mean is astronomically higher. And the same people that would say that he needs to scrap the written statement and get out in front of the cameras are the very same people, likely, that are either looking for or simply will pull apart every word and interpret it to mean exactly what they want it to mean. So a written statement is, in my opinion, a better first step than just stepping in front of the cameras and the media that already has their mind made up that they are going to trap you into saying something you don't mean and then crucify for something you probably didn't actually say. Now, put me on a list of people who hopes that he someday soonish gets in front of the cameras, or at least a newspaper, and answers questions, but if you look at the plethora of athletes who have screwed up royally and issued apologies (Tiger Woods comes to mind), most make their statement or whatever and then move on from there. So we'll see where this goes. The American public (at least the sports public), generally has a short attention span and a short memory.


In other news, there is a degree of hypocrisy from the general sports media and culture, and especially the baseball fraternity, in their treatment of Ryan Braun. I won't for a minute defend Braun's actions that lead to the suspension. However, sports reporters, former players, fans, and the like put so much emphasis (as they should, most likely) on what a player does on the field and nothing else. This has come up in this thread here even. So what most people have a problem with isn't the PEDs. We've learned that to some extent that is a staining, yet forgivable offense if certain conditions are followed afterwards. Perhaps his press popularity is damaged beyond repair. But the fact that he attempted to smear the character of the drug collector seems to be what people are up in arms about, and probably rightfully so. So what people are upset about is more of an off the field issue.

The reason I bring that up is Miguel Cabrera. Here's a guy who had one of the best season in baseball history last year, and is following that up with having one of the best seasons this year as well. So the baseball world is celebrating him while kicking Braun while he's down. In 2011 Cabrera was arrested for a DUI that where by all accounts he is EXTREMELY fortunate that he didn't kill several people. He issued an apology, and he has rightfully been given a second chance, but what makes almost attempted negligent homicide a more forgivable, move on-able offense then lying? There seems to be a pretty bad standard for that. From now on, Braun's name will always be closely followed by "PED", "Liar", "Character assassinator", but you'd be remiss to hear Cabrera's name followed by the history of his nearly killing a bunch of people because of DUI. This makes it rather hard to take the general sports world seriously when they comment on the current situation around Ryan Braun.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
08/26/2013 @ 08:50:10 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - 08/23/2013 @ 07:32:36 PM
As for absolving everyone else, first off, I doubt it's even true. Literally no one else connected to him knew? Did he google "Where to find PEDs"?


I'm not sure he meant that he found drugs on the street and that literally none of the 6 billion people on the earth had any clue that Braun was using products. The black market drug smuggler that you go through to purchase PEDs from a shady strip mall clinic doesn't, in my opinion, qualify as someone you need to absolve (the reports of the investigation suggest that Braun himself didn't have direct contact with the Clinic, but rather he went through a third party), at least in the context of Braun's statement.

Here's what Tom Haudricourt had to say about it:

Of all the comments Braun made in his public apology, this one was very revealing:

"It is important that people understand that I did not share details of what happened with anyone until recently. My family, my teammates, the Brewers organization, my friends, agents and advisors had no knowledge of these facts, and no one should be blamed for me."

Considering Braun had told lies about his PED use for over a year and a half, it's difficult to imagine never confiding in a single person. But according to someone who knows him well, apparently that's the truth.

Braun didn't tell his parents, Joe and Diane, or his brother Steve. He didn't tell his fiancée, Larisa Fraser. Believe it or not, he didn't tell his agent, Nez Balelo. He never confided in a teammate or any of his friends.

No one in the Brewers' organization, including owner Mark Attanasio, knew Braun had violated the MLB drug policy and lied about it for so long until his suspension was announced. Braun never mentioned it to Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, who had become one of his closest friends as well as a business partner.

Talk about putting yourself on an island. Can you imagine keeping a secret as dark as that one for so long, especially when so many believed you and covered your back? It's why Braun is currently experiencing some very tough love from family, friends, advisers and members of the Brewers organization, justifiably so.

Braun wasn't kidding when he said, "Those who put their necks out for me have been embarrassed by my behavior. I don't have the words to express how sorry I am for that."



http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/braun-still-has-plenty-to-explain-b9982152z1-220965651.html
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 08:15:30 AM
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Ryan Braun is calling Brewer season ticket holders to apologize.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 12:46:38 PM
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From another article on it:

Wes Aldridge was among fans who got a call, but at first was skeptical it was actually Braun.

"At first, I was just waiting for somebody to say we're pulling your leg here," Aldridge told WTMJ-AM in Milwaukee. Aldridge said he didn't waste any time getting to the question on the mind of many Brewers' fans.

"I asked him point blank, I said 'Why a guy like you, that has all the talent in the world, why would you do something like this?'" Aldridge said. "And he said it was a mistake a friend of his had talked him into and that he was really sorry for his actions."
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sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 03:53:11 PM
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He needs to own up to this already. He's still not. Grow a pair if you still can and quit calling it a mistake.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 06:25:57 PM
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Define: Mistake
noun
1.
an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong.

I'm not sure what word you would use to describe it, or what actions you would take to personally apologize to season ticket holders, but I'd say the particular word you are objecting to seems to fit fairly well here. Getting shitty advice and succumbing to temptation and the rest that followed was a pretty huge mistake (in that the actions and judgements were misguided and wrong). But then again, there are some that probably want to find any reason to never think Braun is anything other than a dirty, nonredeemable rat.
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sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
09/06/2013 @ 07:09:01 PM
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He's a grown man and makes his own decisions. It's ridiculous to keep calling it a mistake. He knowingly took PEDs on his own accord and then lied about it. Calling it a mistake makes him seem like a victim in this whole fiasco. He's not.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 08:25:47 PM
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For the record I was more pointing out the fact that at least one "friend" did know.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
09/06/2013 @ 08:28:38 PM
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I got that, but I'm still frustrated by the whole mistake thing. But yea, still lying even after being caught.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 08:31:44 PM
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Yeah. It's not really incorrect to call it a "mistake", but the degree to which he uses it, along with other things, still continues to come across has him seeing this as something that happened to him, and not that he did.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
09/06/2013 @ 10:59:26 PM
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I'm not sure I see it that way. There has to be a way to refer to the whole thing without literally spelling it out. Sure he hasn't spelled ou the entirety of every detail, but is there a different word or phrase that you would have him use? Taking PEDs: mistake. Lying about: bigger mistake. Calling out the drug collector: pretty rotten mistake. I guess I'm missing the whole "somehow I'm a victim in this", at least from his most recent statement and the phone calls that, according to brewer high-ups, were his idea.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/06/2013 @ 11:01:48 PM
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In his statement of apology, he seems pretty clear that he is the one who caused it, and the embarrassment to everyone around him.
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newalex.jpgAlex - Who controls the past now controls the future
09/23/2013 @ 06:41:14 PM
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So...why is Yuni still getting playing time? The only reason I can think of is Ron wants him to rack up so much negative WAR that Doug can't possibly resign him.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
09/25/2013 @ 06:57:47 PM
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Gomez can't not get opposing players mad at him. http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=30934665
I understand the Barves point to some extent, but I've never seen a catcher block homeplate from a homerun hitter. Ridic.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/25/2013 @ 09:08:19 PM
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I don't understand how McCann didn't get ejected too. Sure Gomez shouldn't have walked to first base, but if McCann doesn't stand up the third base line and basically refuse to let Gomez pass, none of the other stuff happens. I've never seen anything like that before. Gomez got plunked by Maholm earlier in the year. Apparently Gomez has a long memory.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
09/25/2013 @ 10:09:00 PM
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Wow, the boys on MLB Network would have you think that Gomez's actions were worse than Ryan Braun's. They called Gomez's actions embarrassing for the game of baseball and defended everything the Brave's players did from that point on. And their graphic and their commentary didn't even acknowledge that a Braves player threw a punch and got ejected. Gomez probably was out of control, but he didn't throw any punches, he didn't rush in and start a fight. What the heck is everyone complaining about? The MLB network analysis was the most embarrassing thing about the whole event.

Basically, when Gomez and McCaan started jawing (after McCaan confronted Gomez halfway down the third base line while Gomez was still rounding the bases), Lucroy intervened to pull Gomez away, and Freddie Freeman came flying in and Reid Johnson threw a hay-maker at Gomez. So everyone calm down.
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
09/25/2013 @ 10:54:32 PM
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For his part, gomez has already made a big twitter apology. So there's that.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
09/26/2013 @ 01:28:28 PM
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Apparently, Brian McCann has a knack for instigating bench clearing fracases. So there are a few lessons here. Either never ever ever in the slightest way try to showboat even a little when Brian McCann is behind the plate (or always showboat when he's behind the plate, because that's apparently his trigger). The other lesson is that if anyone ever showboats a homerun against your team, your team's catcher should either chew him out when he reaches home plate or block him from crossing homeplate altogether. Either option initiates the benches to clear and there's a 0% ejection rate.
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Scott edited this at 09/26/2013 1:31:24 pm
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
09/26/2013 @ 01:33:45 PM
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If they don't like it, don't bean him
http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=30955455
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/26/2013 @ 01:39:24 PM
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The MLB network folks were basically mocking Gomez for thinking he had a beef with being hit by the guy earlier. I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've heard a baseball talking head say that a batter didn't have a right to be upset about being beaned. Heck, when what's his name bull rushed Zack Greinke earlier this year and broke his collar bone, everyone was all about the "history" the two had (from 3 years prior), and that Greinke was just as much to blame. The lack of respect afforded to Gomez in this case (even though how he acted was really stupid and out of control) was ridiculous, particular how everyone essnetially recommended Brian McCann for baseball sainthood for his actions.

And another thing (not that I agree with this), whatever happened to the "if you don't like it, don't let him beat you" excuse? The Brewers open the season against the Braves next year. Might it carry over?
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Scott edited this 2 times, last at 09/26/2013 1:41:26 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/26/2013 @ 03:24:00 PM
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The headline should have read: "Gomez breaks unwritten baseball rule, McCann responds by breaking actual written baseball rule"
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i
09/26/2013 @ 06:08:48 PM
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June? Even then he watched, then he said something to the pitcher while starting to slow trot, then he got into it with the first baseman, then he kept barking the whole way around at people. That's a little above and beyond.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
09/26/2013 @ 06:50:56 PM
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I think someone said something to him before I said something to the pitcher. According to Bill Schroeder, there were "expletives" coming through his headset that were saying something like "F#$%ing Run", before Gomez said anything. Like most have said, nobody is defending Gomez. Too many people acted as if the Braves were just innocent bystanders while Gomez was breathing fire in a convent.

And it turns out, Gomez and Reed Johnson both got suspended 1 game, and McCann and Freddie Freeman were both fined.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
09/26/2013 @ 07:03:18 PM
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I think McCann should've gotten suspended. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. You're going to prevent him from touching homeplate? Are you kidding me?
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
09/26/2013 @ 08:46:44 PM
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McCann left tonight's game with a hip strain, listed as day-to-day, so there's that.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
09/27/2013 @ 11:58:28 AM
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I mostly just hope that this little incident doesn't have any bearing on the Gold Glove voting, which Gomez should win going away (for centerfield, that is).
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
09/30/2013 @ 12:59:45 PM
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Well that was dumb of the Brewers
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/41002/bad-baseball-final-tanking-standings?ex_cid=espnapi_public
Maybe the silver lining is this keeps them from signing any "big" contracts so they can go into rebuilding mode either at the trade deadline or in 2015.

Edit: Or this offseason, which seems unlikely as that might affect ticket sales.
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Alex screwed with this at 09/30/2013 1:01:58 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/30/2013 @ 01:31:33 PM
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so in other words, if the Brewers finished a game worse they would have been able to sign a Kyle Losche and still retain their draft pick?

Rickie's contract expires after next year, so that'll clear up about $10 million from the books. Heck, they should trade him and cover 90% of his salary anyway. I'd be more than willing to pay for Rickie to play for some other team.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/30/2013 @ 03:11:56 PM
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Actually, I'm not sure the Brewers need to necessarily be in full blown rebuilding mode. They had a meltdown in May where they lost 22 games that accounted for the most of the big whole they were never able to dig out of. Post all-star break, the Brewers had the 4th lowest team ERA in the NL (pre-all-star break they had the worst ERA in the NL). They have some usable pieces for the starting rotation next year. their offense was decimated mostly by injuries (and suspensions) this year. They lost their first, second, and third option at first base before the season even began, and the result was a historically low slugging % and power numbers from the first base position. In addition to that, their top three offensive producers from the year before (Ramirez, Hart, and Braun, combined to play less than 1/3 of the entire season (31% of the combined 486 possible games). Hart missed the entire season, Braun only played in 65 games due to injury and his suspension, and Ramirez played in 92 games. Ramirez might be the point where he can't be depended on for long term anymore, though. He will turn 36 next year, afterall.

I'm pretty sure Carlos Gomez carried the entire defense on his back, and the numbers at FanGraphs seem to back that up. Even still, defenisvely, the Brewers had the 4th most defensive runs saved in the entire league.
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Scott edited this at 09/30/2013 3:26:06 pm
hoochpage.JPGSarah - So's your face
09/30/2013 @ 05:59:43 PM
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Twins are probably a lost cause for 2014. Did anything good come out of this horrendous season? When Perkins had chances for saves, he got them for the most part. Hicks was disappointing and doesn't want to play winter ball to improve. Arcia seemed like kind of a let down after all the hype. Gibson was a bust. Dozier had a break out year I suppose. Willingham was terrible and hurt. Mauer became concussed. Is it too soon for Buxton and Sano?
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newalex.jpgAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
09/30/2013 @ 10:56:39 PM
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The Brewers' biggest problem is that 3 teams from the division are in the playoffs this year. In a weaker division, sure they could have good season next year and sneak in as a wild card. But they were 34-42 in division this year and it's probably not getting any easier next year. Reds need to pony up for Choo or replace him an maybe Arroyo (who only had .8 WAR so they could let him walk and use the salary to sign Choo). Pirates only issue would be if they want to could they resign A.J. Burnett. Cardinals might have the most questions, Furcal is a FA but they managed without a decent SS this year, same with Carpenter, and then Beltran's contract is up. And without trying to figure it out statistically they seem like the oldest of those 3 teams, and hitting like they did this year with RISP again next year is unlikely.

So that's 3 teams who seem to be in their winning "window" unless you want to call the Cardinals old but I would say not yet. Meanwhile the Brewers don't have a 1B (if Hart is healthy and if he signs for a 1 year discounted deal that might be the 2014 answer), Ramirez can't be counted on to stay healthy for a whole season (which is what I assume you mean by long term, no way they resign him after next year), Scooter can't hit lefties worth a hoot so they might as well keep Rickie and platoon those two and hope Rickie's trade value increases with at good start (and a few less months of contract), Aoki is probably gone after next year, the minor leagues has a couple 4th/5th outfields and utility players and projects, and then there's the issue of pitching.

If everyone (literally whoever their 5 best starters are) stays healthy the starting pitching could be ok, but is that good enough to make the playoffs? The bullpen could get reshuffled a lot so hard to predict much of anything with that.

I guess it depends what you mean by "full blown". I'm not suggesting following the Astros blueprint. But if I'm GM, everyone is on the table except Segura. Need to hold Braun for a while before even a chance of decent offer would come in, Lucroy is almost untouchable due to his low salary, and Gomez I would hate to move but he's the most reasonable option if you want to take the long view and bring back 2-4 good prospects. If they aren't in serious contention next summer all the last year contract guys have to go, Ramirez, Aoki, Gallardo, Lohse has 2 years but still, Rickie, the bullpen arms of Henderson, Gorzelanny, and whoever else they have at the time.

In summary, the Brewers have a 1 year sort of window except 3 other teams in the division are hot, then they need to reload but their minor league talent is generally rated as poor and that's the only way they can reload because they can't go out and sign 6 good free agents. And please please please no more Yuni.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
10/01/2013 @ 08:38:00 AM
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Alex Wrote - Yesterday @ 10:56:39 PM
Ramirez can't be counted on to stay healthy for a whole season (which is what I assume you mean by long term, no way they resign him after next year),


It's funny and a little sad, because that's actually what I was thinking. By long term, I meant an entire season.

And oddly enough, I don't disagree with most of what you said. I might emphasize more that the untouchables are Segura, Lucroy, Gomez (all of whom are 27 or younger, and fairly cheap), and Braun. The rest are (or should be) somewhat fair game if not outright shopped. But otherwise, I think your assessment is fairly reasonable.

One thought I've had, and heard from some obscure sources, would be to trade Aoki, move Braun to right field and have Khris Davis play everyday in left. He's got a decent bat, but he can't play anything but left field. I doubt that would play out that way, though.
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Scott screwed with this 2 times, last at 10/01/2013 8:39:08 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/01/2013 @ 10:46:02 AM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 08:38:00 AM
One thought I've had, and heard from some obscure sources, would be to trade Aoki, move Braun to right field and have Khris Davis play everyday in left. He's got a decent bat, but he can't play anything but left field. I doubt that would play out that way, though.


Holy crap. I thought I was just making this up. Honestly, I had the thought before I heard others talking about it (not that I'm trying to claim that it was totally my idea now give me credit). But Doug Melvin just addressed this very issue in his season ending press conference. He said there have been some "internal discussion" about moving Braun to RF.
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newalex.jpgAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
10/01/2013 @ 02:21:48 PM
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I don't think I'd do it, just put Davis in right.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/01/2013 @ 04:06:11 PM
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There have probably been internal discussion about moving Braun to his couch too. Although in this case it was serious enough to mention it.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
10/02/2013 @ 01:21:18 PM
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Alex Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:21:48 PM
I don't think I'd do it, just put Davis in right.


Davis has the arm of a 12 girl. He can barely make the throw to third from left, let alone right field. Basically, the consensus right now is that the only position he is reasonably capable of playing is left field. Because his bat looks like it could be pretty good, I imagine they want to figure out a way to have his bat in the lineup more regularly. Moving Braun to right is probably more practical. Plus, there could be a little sense of "Braun is willing to do anything to rebuild his reputation" kind of after effect of Braun moving (this would be an indirect effect, not a "hey, we could really help Braun's image by moving him to left" decision by management).
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2887.gifAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
10/02/2013 @ 01:25:35 PM
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Sarah Wrote - 09/26/2013 @ 07:03:18 PM
I think McCann should've gotten suspended. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. You're going to prevent him from touching homeplate? Are you kidding me?


Looks like that's his thing http://www.fangraphs.com/not/brian-mccann-fun-police/
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
10/02/2013 @ 01:28:41 PM
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Or, Braun has gotten decent in left so you leave him and just live with Davis being bad in right, instead of Davis still being bad in left and possibly Braun not being decent in right.

Or see if you can trade him to an AL team if he's really that inept at defense.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
10/02/2013 @ 05:34:31 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 01:25:35 PM
Sarah Wrote - 09/26/2013 @ 07:03:18 PM
I think McCann should've gotten suspended. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. You're going to prevent him from touching homeplate? Are you kidding me?


Looks like that's his thing http://www.fangraphs.com/not/brian-mccann-fun-police/

That was enjoyable.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
10/24/2013 @ 08:11:47 AM
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Baseball should put 2 umps at each base for the World Series. Because looking at a guy's feet makes it hard to also look at a guy's hands. 8 umps on the infield would solve that problem.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/24/2013 @ 02:31:01 PM
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Slightly modified facebook recycle:

Yeah, it was a tough break for the Cards. It's one of those classic "you can't complain but you still kind of can" things. The end result was obviously the right call, so you kind of look like a completely unreasonable homer griping about it, but at the same time when do you ever see an about-face like that? You could argue that bad calls happen all the time and the world series probably isn't the time for the 3-time-a-year 180. On the other hand, it was a really bad call.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 10/24/2013 2:55:22 pm
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
10/24/2013 @ 03:17:41 PM
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The only thing I can think really urked Matheny was what he would need to do in the upcoming games to initiate an umpire review if there is another bad call. The precedent has apparently been set that bad calls can be "reviewed", so some are saying. But yeah, anyone who has ever said something along the lines of "do what you can to get the call right" have to at least appreciate that they got the call right.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
10/24/2013 @ 03:18:13 PM
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Either way, if at the beginning of the season I had ranked all possible World Series combinations on a scale of best to worst, the Boston and St. Louis combo probably would have been the worst.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/24/2013 @ 03:20:31 PM
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I can't bring myself to wish well anything related to the Red Sox, and apparently my admiration for a former Brewer catcher who got beaned in the face (spitting out blood and maybe teeth) without even falling to the ground is enough for me to at least not root against an otherwise hated rival.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/25/2013 @ 10:03:39 AM
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Carlos Gomez is a Gold Glove Finalist! #pleasedontbejuicing #ifyouarejuicingpleaseliebetterthanthelastguy
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
10/29/2013 @ 09:32:37 AM
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Did anyone have any thoughts on the way Game 3 ended with the obstruction call? In my view, I can't recall something so uncontroversial being so controversial. I also can't recall such universal consensus from various aspects of the sports media about the correctness of a controversial call. It would seem to me that the majority of people who had a problem with the call didn't understand, or refused to accept, the very explicit, almost pure black and whiteness of the obstruction rule itself. The fact that the rule has an example that almost was an exact play-by-play description of what happened on the field should be an indicator that the call is 100% correct and is as black and white and a swing and a miss being a strike.

What's more is that people from every angle didn't seem to grasp the explanation. The rule explicitly states that intent does not matter. If a fielder not fielding a batted ball gets in the way of a runner, it is obstruction. When the third baseman was asked about it, his response was "what am I supposed to do there. I didn't intentionally get in his way." Exactly. the "get in his way" part is the key phrase there. He could have been knocked unconscious and laying motionless, but if the runner is obsctructed in anyway, it is the exact definition of the call (and in my opinion, it absolutely should be).

Another thing I think fans (pretty much only Red Sox fans) don't understand is that obstruction isn't a penalty. It's not like pass intereference. The third baseman isn't "guilty" of anything necessarily. It's more a statement of fact based on a specific condition:
Is the fielder fielding a batted ball? No.
Was the runner's progress impeded in anyway and for whatever reason by the fielder? Yes
Ruling: Obstruction.

Anyway, I read too many posts from various places of people crucifying Jim Joyce for "making it about himself" and wanting his name in the papers. The fact is, the call was correct, it was necessary, the baseball world almost unanimously agreed. For anyone who thought the call was anything but correct, I might suggest a further study of the baseball rules (or just get your head out of your @$$).
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Scott edited this at 10/29/2013 9:33:25 am
newalex.jpgAlex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret
10/29/2013 @ 01:25:31 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 09:32:37 AM
Did anyone have any thoughts on the way Game 3 ended with the obstruction call?


When the 3B missed the throw I thought "game over" right away, just happened in a more nuanced way.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/30/2013 @ 07:43:21 AM
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Carlos Gomez wins the Gold Glove for centerfield, and he didn't even have to wait until after he left the Brewers to do it (a la Fernando Vina, Mike Matheny, JJ Hardy)!
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Scott perfected this 2 times, last at 10/30/2013 7:59:02 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/31/2013 @ 11:25:37 AM
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Anyone from the Twins delagation want to shed some light on why the Twins just released David Ortiz after the 2002 season? It would seem like that's a move you might want back. But maybe there's more to it.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
10/31/2013 @ 11:45:09 AM
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/776666-david-ortiz-vs-big-papi-comparing-ortiz-in-minnesota-to-papi-in-boston
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
10/31/2013 @ 12:00:49 PM
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Ah. The injury history alone would be enough for me to be satisfied with cutting a guy with average at best numbers loose. The Brewers should have done that with Weeks years ago. Perhaps he would have been picked up by the Red Sox, nicknamed Little Papi and gone on to be part of the most clutch duo in the history of baseball.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
10/31/2013 @ 12:12:39 PM
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Part of it is also Fenway.
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sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
10/31/2013 @ 08:27:30 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 12:12:39 PM
Part of it is also Fenway.

A gigantic portion of it is Fenway. Although I'm sure someone will show me stats that prove he was solid away from the little park that could.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
11/01/2013 @ 01:03:36 PM
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David Ortiz career splits
at Fenway
Avg OBP Slg OPS
.313 .409 .591 1.000

Away
.267 .361 .535 .896

It's not astronomical. Lots of guys have better slash lines at home than they do on the road. But each stat is over 40 points higher at home than on the road. Actually I don't know how that compares to average. Maybe this does suggest that Fenway was a huge advantage for him.
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
11/01/2013 @ 07:18:03 PM
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ISplitGABBAOBPSLGOPStOPS+ ▾
FLA-Dolphins Std39.444.4441.5562.000300
MIN-Target Field1143.488.560.9071.467212
CHC-Wrigley Fld721.333.440.8571.297172
MIL-Miller Pk410.400.455.8001.255165
ATL-Turner Fld1134.265.405.8241.228156
HOU-MinuteMaidPk925.480.536.5201.056135
STL-Busch Stad312.417.417.6671.083131
WSN-Natls Park26.333.286.8331.119127
DET-Comerica Pk49180.311.395.6671.062125
MIA-Marlins Pk37.286.333.7141.048118
NYY-Yankee Stad56212.316.393.6321.025118
BOS-Fenway Pk7892871.313.409.5911.000115
TEX-AmeriquestFd52203.291.375.6351.010114
SEA-Safeco Fld60205.293.394.571.965107
TBD-TropicanaFld94344.262.395.567.962107
PIT-3 Rivers Std25.200.500.400.900104
TOR-Rogers Ctr102394.269.360.591.951102
SEA-Kingdome38.125.417.500.917100
ARI-Bank One Bpk27.286.444.429.87395
PHI-CitizensBank1847.255.333.574.90892
CHW-US Cellular59226.274.343.544.88789
NYY-Yankee Stad334128.266.375.492.86788
BAL-Camden Yards97365.255.366.471.83782
KCR-KauffmanStad51195.256.353.472.82479
COL-Coors Fld827.259.333.481.81575
MIN-Metrodome252828.269.353.428.78171
CLE-Jacobs Fld57210.233.311.424.73459
LAA-Angel Stad45161.199.296.435.73157
OAK-McAfee Col55197.218.299.396.69551
NYM-Shea Stad33.333.333.333.66748
SFG-SBC Park727.222.250.444.69446
PHI-VeteransStad611.182.308.273.58031
PIT-PNC Pk511.182.250.273.52315
SDP-PetCo Pk311.091.167.091.258-40
Tokyo Dome27.000.222.000.222-42
CIN-Cinergy Fld22.000.000.000.000-100
DET-Tiger Stad22.000.000.000.000-100
LAD-Dodger Stad13.000.000.000.000-100
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/1/2013.



tOPS+ : OPS+ of this split relative to the player's overall OPS, 100 is his average

They just didn't build Target Field soon enough
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Alex edited this 3 times, last at 11/01/2013 7:24:34 pm
scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
11/01/2013 @ 07:26:17 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 07:18:03 PM

They just didn't build Target Field soon enough


Or that just indicates how bad the Twins have been the last 3 years.
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