MLB 2010 2nd Half

07/20/2010 11:03 am
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It's past the all star break, lets retire the old super long thread.
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/20/2010 @ 01:57:53 PM
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Jenny Finch is retiring

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=5394292
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
07/20/2010 @ 06:43:26 PM
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in the 2nd inning of a game the brewers were trailing 9-0, fielder gets plunked in his first at bat, in his right shoulder blade. really?
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/20/2010 @ 08:36:09 PM
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Well, the man is the size of a small moon, he curves space time around him more than most other players.

Does he stand close? Is he slow, or make little attempt to get out of the way? (Lots of guys would get hit, but they try to avoid it, others figure it's a guaranteed base, so why not take it.)
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
07/20/2010 @ 08:58:33 PM
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I was trying to pay more attention to that recently. He does have more of a closed stance by today's standards (as in, the exaggerated open stance is becoming the standard). I wouldn't say he "crowds" the plate necessarily, but he definitely remains committed to the pitch throughout. In that sense, maybe his aggressiveness makes him more susceptible. He makes good attempts to get out of the way. In fact, sometimes it looks obnoxious how he twists out of the way to avoid it, although he could just be twisting in order to have the ball hit him in the back rather than the front, which is what they taught us in little league. He wears padding on his elbow, but you NEVER see him lean into anything. In fact, he is the only player I've seen who tries to convince the umpire that he didn't get hit sometimes, because he'd prefer to swing the bat rather than take a base. Tonight didn't really look like he was getting "thrown at", not at first glance anyway. Maybe the Pirates thought they'd try their luck and getting him to go off and get suspended. Prince did hit a homer yesterday, so clearly the two are related.
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - They just want the damn ash of that field
07/20/2010 @ 09:11:11 PM
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If you look at the stats it seems that getting hit is more about the batter than the pitcher. Chase Utley has led the majors in being hit for 3 straight years, and the same players pop up year after year. I haven't heard anything about Utley being a total ass who pisses off pitchers all the time.

FYI, lots of Brewers at the top of the lists. Rickie Weeks has led the NL twice, Geoff Jenkins in 2005, Jason Kendall is the active leader. Maybe Fielder is just trying to fit in.
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
07/20/2010 @ 09:38:47 PM
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3 hbp since the all-star break, in 6 games. That's the equivalent of getting his 81 times in a season.
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sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
07/20/2010 @ 09:44:54 PM
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There's something about Prince that makes people want to hit him, whether voluntarily or not.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
07/20/2010 @ 10:58:16 PM
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Well, if that is the case, MLB should rethink how they investigate and punish beanballers. If Fielder leans into lots of pitches, or doesn't try to get out of the way, then let him take his lumps. But I don't think that's the case. It might be the case with Rickie; afterall, it is his job to get on base. Prince doesn't want to get a free pass to first base. He wants to hit the ball. And he certainly doesn't want to get hurt and have to worry about whether or not this next at bat is going to end with a ball to the head.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/21/2010 @ 08:46:18 AM
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Uecker returns on Friday! Let the celebration begin!
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
07/21/2010 @ 09:11:52 AM
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An article about baseball teams and their announcers.

While they seemed to miss Uecker in the article, who definitely qualifies as one of these guys (who has been with his team for almost 40 years), I think the point is well made. Former Brewers radio announcer, Pat Hughes (current cubs radio man), said this:

with players changing teams so much these days, it's the announcer many times that is the one consistent thing and the one consistent thread between the public and the ballclub.

As far as I'm concerned, Bob Uecker's voice is what Brewer games sound like. He has had some very good partners in the booth, and I have liked all of them, but baseball, to me, sounds like Bob Uecker. I feel very fortunate to have had Mr. Baseball to listen to all of my life.
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Scott messed with this at 07/21/2010 9:18:44 am
thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - Ombudsman
07/21/2010 @ 10:28:21 AM
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This first quote is from the old thread:
Jon Wrote - 07/17/2010 @ 11:37:05 PM
Local tidbit, the Eau Claire Express had a player get hit by a pitch three times in one game on Friday.


In the Northwoods League All-Star Game last night, this same player (Steve McGuiggan in case you were wondering) was hit by a pitch two more times.

Scott Wrote - Today @ 08:46:18 AM
Uecker returns on Friday! Let the celebration begin!


That's great news. And speaking of the Northwoods League All-Star Game, it was cool to see that the Express (who were hosting) put up banners at Carson Park of some of the more famous players who played for the Eau Claire Bears/Braves when they were a minor league franchise from the 1930s to the 1960s. I saw banners for: Joe Torre, Andy Pafko, and of course, Bob Uecker. There was also one for Burleigh Grimes, a WI native who played for the Eau Claire Commissioners of the Minnesota-Wisconsin League in 1912. I didn't see one for Hank Aaron, but seeing as he has a statue out in front of the stadium, I guess they figured he was covered.
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Matt messed with this 4 times, last at 07/21/2010 10:37:21 am
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i
07/21/2010 @ 10:38:27 AM
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Blackburn is heading to the bullpen, being replaced by Duensing.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/21/2010 @ 06:15:50 PM
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Fielder HBP again. Just saying.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
07/21/2010 @ 09:12:10 PM
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White Sox are showing quite a bit of interest in Fielder. I'd like to see Pavano hit'em! emoticon
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - Even now in Heaven there are angels carrying savage weapons
07/23/2010 @ 08:42:33 AM
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You can do all the tailgating you want. This is how they roll in MSP.

New strip club could toss more curves at Twins fans
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/23/2010 @ 10:28:03 PM
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Too bad the Brewers didn't let Hoffman walk and make JAxford the closer to start the season. Management fail.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/24/2010 @ 06:39:32 AM
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I don't think you could have predicted Axford's success. Hoffman's demise, maybe.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
07/24/2010 @ 12:47:40 PM
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Insider content, very interesting HOF stats analysis

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=5403586
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
07/24/2010 @ 07:41:06 PM
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Weeks got hit in the ear hole today with a fastball. And he is NOT crowding the plate at all. It was a rookie pitcher who was all over the place. If you don't know how pitch inside, you have no business coming inside. This is starting to get a little ridiculous. Weeks has been hit 19 times this season and it's only July.

Speaking of this, and Macha said that the NFL seems so far ahead of baseball on things like this, suspensions should be handed out for things like this. The NFL protects the QB from pretty much everything, and a lot of those things aren't really that threatening to the QB's health. Well, getting hit in the head with a 90+ MPH pitch IS a big deal. Players have had their careers ended by that kind of stuff. I think baseball should look at almost a 0 tolerance policy when it comes to HBP to the head. Again, if you don't know how to pitch inside, A) you shouldn't be in baseball, or B) you have no business pitching inside. Through the ball over the plate or go home.
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Scott edited this at 07/24/2010 7:52:02 pm
sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
07/25/2010 @ 10:15:01 AM
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We all saw the hit live and knew you were imploding somewhere. Morneau got kneed in the head earlier this month (July 6th?) and is still on the DL with post-concussion syndromes. Accidents are going to happen. You're throwing a ball 90-95 MPH trying to hit a smallish strike zone (or just outside of said strike zone), plus hitters don't have a lot of time to react. But based on how many pitches are thrown a game times all the games being played, the percentage is pretty low of getting hit in the head (unless you're a Brewer). I'm not entirely blaming the Brewers for getting hit all the time (especially with a ball to the head), but they have to be doing something wrong. It could be that they're crowding the plate, being jerkwads, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Complete sidenote, we'll be in Tampa for a couple days in a week or so. Any places we have to go to? Anything we need to know about Tropicana Field? (besides the fact that it sucks?)
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
07/25/2010 @ 01:12:50 PM
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A Twins batter has been hit by a pitch in every game for the last 2 games. I demand retribution!emoticon
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
07/25/2010 @ 08:06:15 PM
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The Trop? Nothing too out of the ordinary to make sure you see there. Just a warning, there will be lots of cowbell there. If you get a chance to get to Channelside in Tampa at somepoint, that can be fun, especially a Dueling Piano bar called Howl at the Moon. Even if you aren't a drinker, it can be a lot of fun, if you are or are with the kind of people who like to sing songs everyone knows. It gets crowded though, so get there before 9:00 if you are going to go. Clearwater beach is fun, and it's not too far away from Tampa.

As far as the Brewers doing things wrong to get hit by pitches, I have been paying attention to that a lot recently, and that has been brought up by other people too. Rickie Weeks stands in the middle of the box. He isn't crowding the plate. I'm also not saying that pitchers should pitch inside. Hitters need to be pitched inside, especially powerhitters (I guess Weeks qualifies as one now, since he has 20 home runs this year). But, pitching inside and letting a fastball get away that ends up in someone's ear are two different things entirely. If you run the risk of hitting someone in the face because you don't have good enough control as a pitcher, you should not be in the Majors. And I think it is in everyone's best interest to attempt to cut down HBP, since they are indeed the cause of a fair amount of injuries. Also, getting kneed in the head as a baserunner is not exactly analogous to getting hit by a pitch. Morneau's thing was a little more of a freak accident. I'm just saying that baseball should do what it can to make sure that HBPs are less frequent by sending a message to pitchers (and managers) that it isn't something that should be tolerated. In spring training this year, Fielder intentionally (there are no debates about it) got plunked by a Giants pitcher because the Brewers got a little too excited about a walkoff home run in their own park. That type of thing should be investigated, and I think pitchers SHOULD be suspended are disciplined in some way if there is suspicion that players are getting hit intentionally.

And yes, accidents do happen. Weeks got hit in the head the other day. Two batters later, Ryan Braun went sprawling out of the way of a ball headed at HIS head. Accidents? probably. But again, that pitcher should not be allowed to be in the game if his control is that suspect that he can't help but throw at guys' heads. For the Brewers to get balls at the head twice in one inning to two of their better players, if they don't feel like baseball is trying to protect their players, why shouldn't the brewers line up an Adam Dunn or an Albert Pujols and drill a fastball at their head?

It comes down to this: there is no question that baseball has had and still has this sort of "self-policing" mentality, and the enforcement of offenses is hitting the opposing team's batters. MLB should punish this behavior. It is in everyone's best interest for baseball to crackdown on this.

Prince Fielder has been plunked 4 times in the since the All-Star break. That's about once every 2.5 games. I'm not demanding retribution for the sake of the Brewers. I'm demanding baseball clean itself up for baseball's sake.
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Scott edited this at 07/25/2010 8:08:23 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/25/2010 @ 08:09:59 PM
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And as a note, I'm not sure what teams were playing, but a few days ago a game between the Dodgers and someone ended up in a bean fest and players and managers were ejected and whatnot. It's not me saying "the Brewers are getting picked on, do something" as much as is just me noticing it more now since the Brewers are getting hit more than every other team in baseball.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
07/25/2010 @ 09:37:58 PM
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This is kind of a neat story. Adam Dunn visited Bob Uecker in the booth on Saturday during the game.
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sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
07/25/2010 @ 10:22:07 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 08:06:15 PM
Also, getting kneed in the head as a baserunner is not exactly analogous to getting hit by a pitch. Morneau's thing was a little more of a freak accident.


I just meant I know how serious it is for a player to get a concussion, whether it be by knee or ball. They have designed better helmets to prevent concussions and once Morneau returns, he is going to try it out. This is concussion number 2 for him in the ML and preventative measures need to be taken, no doubt. I just don't know what they can do about a pitch getting out of control and plunking a guy in the head.

Thanks for the Tampa info.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
07/26/2010 @ 07:19:35 AM
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Concussions suck, even in baseball; they tend to have lingering effects. What is crazy about Morneau's deal is that it looked fairly innocent. It didn't look at first glance like he got clobbered that bad, but sometimes it doesn't take much. Corey Koskie's career basically ended after what appeared to just be an awkward fall chasing a fly ball that turned out to be a concussion, and the post concussion syndrome seemed to last over a year.
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
07/26/2010 @ 07:30:34 AM
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Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 09:06:15 PM
If you run the risk of hitting someone in the face because you don't have good enough control as a pitcher, you should not be in the Majors.


Come on, if this were true Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and about every other pitcher with an upper-90's fastball wouldn't have been allowed in the majors.

Also, Weeks has averaged 15 HBP a year (not counting last year) in his career, leading the league in 2006 and is leading the league this year, on pace for 30. Pitchers can't account for that kind of consistency.
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Micah perfected this at 07/26/2010 7:35:28 am
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/26/2010 @ 12:07:11 PM
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It's probably either something the Brewers are doing, the NL Central has wild pitchers, everyone hates the Brewers, or some combination of all that. However statistical anomalies happen. There's not necessarily anything to read into it.

Changing the penalties won't really effect anything, and if they did effect things we wouldn't want it. Bean balls to the head are almost always accidental. You can't police accidents with penalties. About the only thing you could do was make the penalties stiff enough that no pitcher wants to throw at the inner half of the plate, which would change the game dramatically, and still not eliminate it. Plus that's one more thing to get "in the pitcher's head" which would probably lead to more issues.

It would be like changing the fine for car accidents to $1 million. It would do little to nothing to prevent accidents, because they're accidents. Any effect it had on people driving more cautiously would be just as likely to cause more accidents. (People get all up in their head, get too vigilant about their surroundings at the expense of watching where they're going, some people slow down leading to everyone on the road going much different speeds, etc)
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Jeremy messed with this 3 times, last at 07/26/2010 12:11:27 pm
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
07/26/2010 @ 12:24:35 PM
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Speaking of Mike Matheny. This reminded me of this story. Jose Valentin had to bat in the ninth inning in a pool of blood after Matheny took one off the face.

Anyway, I'm done with the HBP craze. I'll report back if Prince rushes the mound tears off the pitcher's throwing arm and I'll say I told you so, or if Ricky Weeks breaks an arm or something.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/26/2010 @ 02:49:29 PM
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To be fair, Rickie Weeks and Price Fielder could both be killed in tonight's game by wild pitches, that wouldn't make you any more prophetic. The only thing that would need to change asap is the fact that the game apparently continued after a player was killed.

Intentional plunkings are rarely headshots. Headshots will always be a part of the game. Could someone be seriously hurt? Sure. It's happened before, and it will happen again. However, there's not a whole lot that can be done about it. A batter is standing, more or less, directly in the way of a hard object being chucked at 85-100 MPH, more than 1000 times a season. It's inevitable. If a pitcher is just crazy out of control he wouldn't be pitching long. The sickest out pitch in the world wouldn't matter if you plunk every 6th batter.

If there's anything that is bound to seriously hurt, or kill, someone, that baseball could do something about with a simple policy change, it's getting rid of the toothpick handled bats players are breaking every other at bat, which send shards flying in completely unpredictable directions.
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Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 07/26/2010 2:56:03 pm
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
07/26/2010 @ 08:11:13 PM
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Fielder HBP...19 times, 5 times in last 11 games (since all-star break).
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/02/2010 @ 08:20:47 AM
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Corey Hart signed an extension through 2013. With Matt Gamel making a "transition" to first base in the minors, I wonder what this means for a possible Fielder deal.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
08/02/2010 @ 10:16:03 AM
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Was Fielder ever an option once his current contract is over? Yay for Corey Hart. Gets a great amount of money for staying on a mediocre team. :)
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Sarah perfected this at 08/02/2010 10:16:52 am
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/02/2010 @ 11:59:44 AM
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I think Fielder is somewhat of an option still. This sort of pushes the options further towards the edge of the table, and coupled with Fielder having one of the most ruthless agents in all of sports, this move probably indicates that talks aren't going well and the Brewers are planning on what to do post-Fielder.
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
08/02/2010 @ 12:56:35 PM
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$26.5 million total. Which is more than twice what he is making this year after a lot of people were surprised at how much he got in arbitration. So dollars wise, doesn't seem like that great of a deal for the Brewers. Also, there was an insider article last week I think that said Hart, McGehee, Weeks, and Fielder have all hit a lot of "just enough" distance home runs and, other than Fielder, have %s that are likely to fall back down to the norm in the future. It cites Werth's HR decrease as an example.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=5417018

If they got any good offers I really think they should have sold high on him. Unless Mark A. really has that much money to dump into the team's salary.
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newalex.jpgAlex - Who controls the past now controls the future
08/02/2010 @ 01:07:29 PM
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Fielder is gone.

Gamel moving probably indicates that, plus that they plan on staying with McGehee at 3rd for a while. Although that would probably but McGehee at cleanup and Gamel 5th? Or Escobar second and just have him bunt Weeks over a base every time with Hart going to 4th? Plenty of time to worry about that later I guess.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
08/02/2010 @ 01:13:27 PM
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Alex might indeed be right, but they Brewers do have a decent offensive team right now. So for a the short term, maybe locking up some of their current offensive players and hoping to come across some better pitching in the next 2 or 3 years is what their current outlook is on. If they lose too many of their core of offensive players, it could be years again before they can field another playoff team.

In addition, Weeks is a free agent soon and they can probably sign him to a short contract as well, and Fielder is probably gone during this offseason.

In other words, the Brewers appear to have about a 3 year window with their current offense, which while it is a bit streaky at times, is very adequate. If they can't get pitching to compliment it by the end of Hart's contract, they probably have to consider the whole rebuilding phase again, because they don't have much for prospects like they did when the "Fielder-hart-hardy-weeks" core was together in the minors.
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Scott messed with this at 08/02/2010 1:15:35 pm
newalex.jpgAlex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so!
08/02/2010 @ 05:09:32 PM
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I agree that is basically the plan they seem to be going with. Somehow they need to trade Fielder for at least 2 good starters, or an ace and some projects/cheap inning eaters. And do it this winter I think. You could say, let's keep him and see how next year goes and trade in July if we're out of it, but there's a 95% chance they'll be out of it if they don't get some starting pitching (I'd go higher, but they did have a number of guys on 1 year contracts if I remember correctly so they could get lucky with a free agent or two, which was also the plan for this year...).
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/02/2010 @ 07:54:43 PM
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Mark the date!
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
08/02/2010 @ 09:51:53 PM
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It was probably his fault for standing there, but Carlos Gomez got nailed square in the ear hole. The Brewers lead the NL by about 17 hitbatsmen, but hey, these things just happen.

edit: and Gomez was immediately taken out of the game.
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Scott screwed with this at 08/02/2010 10:01:43 pm
scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
08/02/2010 @ 10:02:09 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 07/26/2010 @ 12:07:11 PM
Bean balls to the head are almost always accidental.


This is probably half true. A bean ball to the head is rarely intentional; that is true. But, a bean ball to the head is most likely the result of a pitcher who doesn't know how (or isn't good enough) to pitch inside who tries coming inside high and in. The message somehow should be sent that if you don't know how to pitch inside, there are going to be consequences. If you don't know how to pitch inside, don't risk someone's career. It's a lack of talent that results in shots to the head.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
08/03/2010 @ 09:40:20 PM
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This HBP thing is getting infuriating, and it's seems to be all the way from the top. In the first two game of the Cubs-Brewers series, the Cubs have plunked the Brewers 4 times. Once to Fielder, twice to Gomez, and once to Gallardo who clearly is a notorious plate crowder. Tonight, Fielder gets plunked (oh, the Brewers haven't hit anyone this series), and BOTH BENCHES GET WARNED!!! WTF?!?!? Really? The Cubs apparently have open season against the Brewers, and with the Brewers not having done anything, if the umpire thinks that a Brewers pitcher comes in a little too close for the rest of this game he gets automatically ejected and suspended??? Someone try to defend that, I would love to hear a reasonable explanation for how that makes any sense at all. In fact, just for that, I am hoping one of these days Macha sends someone up to the mound to take matters into his own hands, because clearly MLB thinks there is nothing wrong with what is going on.
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2887.gifAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
08/03/2010 @ 11:25:53 PM
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Is the umpire even allowed to only warn one team? That would seemingly give the other team open season.

The only one I've seen live was Gomez in the head last night, didn't look at all intentional to me. It's not like these are All-Star caliber pitchers the Cubs are running out there.

Have someone throw a pitch 10 ft over the batter's head. Maybe Hoffman.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
08/04/2010 @ 09:15:25 AM
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Well, they can't just warn one team. But it seemed weird to give either team a warning. They didn't necessarily seem intentional, and even the Brewers announcers said so. The Cubs pitcher that nailed gomez in the head was optioned to AAA after the game, so I suppose that's a bit of justice, and evidence that the cubs just suck.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
08/04/2010 @ 02:39:50 PM
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I should start a new thread called "Scott's Unhealthy Obsession with Hitbatsmen conspiracies", but here's some more from this ongoing saga:

Macha concerned about beanballs
"In exercising their judgement [of whether a pitch was intentional]", Solomon wrote, "umpires have been instructed to be mindful that, given the skill of most Major League pitchers, a pitch that is thrown at the head of a batter more likely than not was thrown there intentionally." - Major League Baseball executive vice president of baseball operations Jimmie Lee Solomon in a memo from May 23, 2010.

"Everybody is getting hit in the head and nobody is getting thrown out," - Ken Macha
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Scott messed with this 2 times, last at 08/04/2010 2:40:33 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/04/2010 @ 04:04:29 PM
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4 HBP by the cubs in the fist two games...no ejections. 1 HBP by the Brewers in the 3rd game...immediate ejection of pitcher and manager.
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newalex.jpgAlex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret
08/09/2010 @ 01:44:27 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5449338

Brewers and Reds swap Edmonds for Chris Dickerson.

Dickerson has way less experience, but his OPS is only 26 points less than Hart (power) and it looks like he steals more bases. They are the same age. Apparently he can't hit lefties though.
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
08/09/2010 @ 02:37:24 PM
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With Lorenzo Cain up now and clearly showing that he's ready for the big leagues, the 40 year old Edmonds became very expendable. So getting someone 13 or so years younger than him, even if statistically it was lateral, doesn't seem like that bad of a deal. Edmonds didn't have that much value anyway.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
08/11/2010 @ 12:30:48 AM
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100809&content_id=13241938&notebook_id=13257288&vkey=notebook_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

The sideways hat should have been the girl's first clue.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
08/18/2010 @ 11:00:27 AM
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You can put it on the board... yes!


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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
08/18/2010 @ 11:36:02 AM
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Broken! I take it you've watched the game now?

Edit: Damn, I really want to hear that.
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Jeremy perfected this at 08/18/2010 11:47:49 am
thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - Ombudsman
08/18/2010 @ 01:39:08 PM
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It wasn't anything that special, but.... Steve Stone was mid sentence when Thome hit it, and they both went dead silent for about a minute. Then Hawk just says, "We'll be right back" as they go to commercial.
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
08/23/2010 @ 10:14:36 PM
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This is for Sarah, since I know how much she was interested in it.

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Matt screwed with this at 08/23/2010 10:15:10 pm
hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
08/24/2010 @ 10:31:05 PM
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Pass
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/07/2010 @ 09:55:50 PM
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Hoffman is 1 out (and 2 strikes) away from save 600. I can hear Scott fainting somewhere.

Edit: and he did it.
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Jeremy messed with this at 09/07/2010 9:58:49 pm
scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
09/07/2010 @ 10:04:16 PM
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I watched it with a quiet appreciation for a very special moment. It is very exciting that he was a Brewer when it happened. I didn't jump, yell, or even clap. But nonetheless, it was a moment that made my heart leap just a little bit. I can appreciate what he's done especially with how he's struggled mightily all the while keeping such a positive attitude and being a very positive influence especially on John Axford. Just a special moment all around, for the Brewers, for Trevor Hoffman, and for baseball.
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Scott messed with this 2 times, last at 09/07/2010 10:07:14 pm
scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
09/08/2010 @ 10:26:37 AM
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For the record, I thought that ESPN was noticeably absent from covering this story last night or this morning. ESPN's front page was more interested in Reggie Bush getting stripped of no he didn't the Heisman trophy. I think a milestone like this should have been given a little more respect by the world wide leader in sports.
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Scott edited this at 09/08/2010 10:26:58 am
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Pie Racist
09/08/2010 @ 11:22:06 AM
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I don't know. It was made a bigger deal because of his struggles this season and the possibility he wouldn't make it, but no other player had 556-599 saves either. It was a nice moment last night, but he didn't pass anyone, he just hit a round number. (Though precedent has been well established that nice round numbers are celebrated with fervor.)

It was just unfortunate timing. The NFL is by far the biggest deal. More people go to ESPN for football news in the offseason than other sports in their peak, and the NFL kicks off a little over 24 hours from now.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 12:37:52 PM
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Yeah, I think you're mostly right about both points you bring up. I wasn't looking for a big celebration, but ESPN would have you believing that the world stood still waiting for Alex Rodriguez to hit home run number 600, and not only was that just a round number, he isn't in the lead, and his integrity has been called into question with the steriods thing. And the sports worlds DOES stand still when a player is at bat with 2,999 career hits, and rightfully so. Hoffman is one of the feel good stories that ESPN usually drools over. And you are right, it was just unfortunate timing. I'm not upset, but I feel that ESPN of all entities should have recognized the achievement for what it was. They treated it like it was someone hitting for the cycle, or a triple play. This is a career achievement that may never be equaled.
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Scott edited this 2 times, last at 09/08/2010 12:43:15 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 12:55:49 PM
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I don't know about the 2,999 hits thing, but they definitely made too big of a deal out of ARod, but that's because they love talking about the Yankees, and because of a lot of the reasons you mentioned, rather than in spite of them. *

Jim Thome has launched a series of absolute bombs lately that has moved him past MacGuire, and then tied for 8th all time, and is enjoying a Favre like "We knew he could be a good add, but no one saw this coming" season, in a stadium that has proved to swat down anything but no doubt homers, and I haven't heard a whole lot about it outside Twins circles, but to be fair, I haven't/didn't really go looking for it either.

*I mean, not to sound like a jerk, but you're comparing one of the most famous athletes in the world, and gets talked about endlessly no matter what he does or doesn't do, and plays in the biggest market in the country, and one of the most famous teams in the world, accumulating something people make a much bigger deal about, while still being relevant, to a guy many people don't know, and plays for a team no one outside the tri state area could find on a map that has been out of contention since roughly 10 days into the season, and whom accumulated lots of something that many people have open disdain for.
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Jeremy perfected this 4 times, last at 09/08/2010 1:16:56 pm
newalex.jpgAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
09/08/2010 @ 01:58:51 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 12:55:49 PM
Jim Thome has launched a series of absolute bombs lately that has moved him past MacGuire,


Maybe that's because no one has ever heard of MacGuire.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 02:16:04 PM
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Again, this isn't a single moment achievement, or even a single season achievement. This is a significant career achievement by a first ballot hall of famer, or at least a significant career milestone. And it transcends whatever team he plays for. In my memory, ESPN has broken away from regular scheduled programming to air a batters at-bat when he has 2,999 no matter what team the batter has played for. All I'm saying is that the achievement deserved notoriety which it did not get. ESPN treated it as a "oh, interesting things today, Joe McPlayer had a bunt double, Adam Schlefield stole 2nd while standing on third, oh, and Hoffman reached 600 saves."

And for that matter, people who watch ESPN, if you don't know who Trevor Hoffman is, then you probably haven't ever watched ESPN in your entire life. So there.

Edit: regarding Thome; he is neither in the HR lead, nor has he achieved a milestone number never achieved before. Not the best example. I wouldn't expect much from that either. And historically, passing members on the career homeruns list has warranted just a graphic saying "and here's where he now stands on the all-time list".
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Scott perfected this 3 times, last at 09/08/2010 2:33:29 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 02:28:45 PM
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All I'm saying is that for all the hype they put on numerous other unworthy events in sports (see Lebron James), ESPN dropped the ball big time not giving this story any more play or respect than just another story from the day in sports.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 02:35:10 PM
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Well, we could debate if a guy never not in the lead hitting a nice round number is a bigger deal or not than a guy jumping up 2 spots in the top ten of one of the most talked about lists in all of sports, but it's besides the point.* (Though I fail to see how it fails the litmus test of "This is a significant career achievement by a first ballot hall of famer, or at least a significant career milestone. And it transcends whatever team he plays for.")

AFAIK MLB network did show it. Part of what made the ARod thing more of a deal that some are saying it should have been was that he failed for so long. They cut to so many at bats because anyone of them could have been 600. If he hit 600 2 days after 599 it wouldn't have been half the deal. If Hoffman blew 6 saves between 599 and 600 there probably would have been more attention on it everytime he went out. It was as much "when is it finally going to happen?" as it was "this is the biggest deal ever!"

*Also, like I said, the night he passed Big Mac the front page of espn.com could have been filled with dancing Jim Thome's for all I know, but this is all going down recently, and I barely see mention of it currently, even on the Twins' page.
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Jeremy screwed with this 4 times, last at 09/08/2010 3:06:28 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/08/2010 @ 02:45:45 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 01:58:51 PM
Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 12:55:49 PM
Jim Thome has launched a series of absolute bombs lately that has moved him past MacGuire,


Maybe that's because no one has ever heard of MacGuire.


Heh, I couldn't decide between just "Mac" or the whole name, because I wasn't sure how to spell it, then I got distracted.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 09/08/2010 2:47:20 pm
sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
09/08/2010 @ 08:32:22 PM
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The whole A-Rod hitting his 600th HR drama was beyond ridiculous. I can't believe how many times they cut away from a game to show him strike out or something. The guy did roids! Why celebrate #600 like that? It's not real. I hate the Yankees.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/09/2010 @ 05:53:42 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:35:10 PM
This is a significant career achievement by a first ballot hall of famer, or at least a significant career milestone. And it transcends whatever team he plays for


This statement wasn't in response to Thome, but rather in response to you saying no one cares about the Brewers. This had nothing to do with the Brewers, or at least it shouldn't have. Did the Twins have a countdown for Thome in the stadium, and were the fans ready to celebrate his passing of Big Mac? Not that that is entirely the point, but the fact is, I would say that getting to a number like 600 in a stat like saves is indeed a big deal. Maybe the Twins actually suck at promoting their own player achievements for that matter. The Brewers always display milestones on their website when they happen, and in fact Hoffman himself has held informal ceremonies in the clubhouse to celebrate several different player milestones. I'm not saying that it should be talked about like it's the end all number for all of stats-dom, just that it should have been recognized better for what it was. He is indeed the career saves leader, he chased this number for a while, and considering baseball hails so many other milestones and events as a sport being driven by stats like no other sport, this should have been up there with some of the big ones.

I'm not comparing him to Thome necessarily, and I didn't say that Thome's situation failed any sort of litmus test, although I think the situations are different. In fact, I'm dropping the premise of comparing it to the HR list altogether because I'm not talking about it in that context.

Besides, did you disregard this part of my comment?
Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 02:16:04 PM

And historically, passing members on the career homeruns list has warranted just a graphic saying "and here's where he now stands on the all-time list".
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Scott perfected this at 09/09/2010 6:04:14 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/09/2010 @ 06:28:33 PM
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So your objection is they didn't make a graphic?

Markets obviously play a role in national media coverage.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/09/2010 @ 06:38:50 PM
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No, the point of that was that was that Thome's mark was most likely treated like every other guy passing up others on the homerun list. In other words, he was given the same respect as everyone else.
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
09/10/2010 @ 02:45:04 AM
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This subject has now been given more attention than ARod and Hoffman combined.

I didn't think it was that compelling of a moment, but also agree that it seems like the kind of thing that would be in ESPN's wheelhouse usually and am surprised that they didn't make a bigger deal of it (if, in fact, they didn't. I didn't watch.) So I think Scott has a point.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/10/2010 @ 11:17:23 AM
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Too be fair, I never implied Scott did or didn't have a point, in fact I originally more or less agreed with him, though I too had no idea how much coverage it did or didn't get, after which my points were only along the lines that using the ARod thing as a guideline of how much coverage it could/should have gotten was setting yourself up for disappointment.

IMO, this was much more similar to the achievements, like Thome's, that get the usual, "Hey this happened today" treatment that 95% of the viewers don't care about.

Hoffman is blazing new ground here. If Rivera passes Hoffman, and someone else passes them, I'm sure a big deal will be made. They passed someone to move into 1st. As it stands every save Hoffman gets is baseball history, and has been for a while, all he did now was hit a round number.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 09/10/2010 11:26:46 am
scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
09/10/2010 @ 01:57:30 PM
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I can grant you that point. It would seem that the argument devolved into how much coverage is appropriate and not whether or not coverage was granted.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
09/11/2010 @ 11:24:40 PM
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Thome passed Frank Thomas tonight on the homerun list, you heard it here first, I'm sure.

Edit: Frank Robinson, whatever it was a Frank, he passed him and it wasn't news.
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Sarah edited this at 09/12/2010 12:19:36 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
09/12/2010 @ 01:34:51 AM
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Sarah Wrote - Yesterday @ 11:24:40 PM
Thome passed Frank Thomas tonight on the homerun list, you heard it here first, I'm sure.


I'm willing to bet you're right on that one. emoticon
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Jeremy messed with this at 09/12/2010 1:36:48 am
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
09/14/2010 @ 11:36:17 PM
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Honestly haven't been watching the Brewers much lately, but flipped to the game tonight and Prince was on deck and then I realized that I might only get to see him in Brewers uni for a couple more weeks so I should probably be savoring it while I can emoticon
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
09/17/2010 @ 09:18:35 AM
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Blah blah blah...football...calvin johnson...ryan grant...blah blah blah....Sweep of the Sox!!!

If the Twins make the series, I'm coming up Halloween weekend and going to the games dressed as Dan Gladden.

Gladden.jpg

Look at that hair flow
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
09/17/2010 @ 10:56:57 AM
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With that sweep I am officially excited for the postseason, good things are going to happen, I can feel it!
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
09/17/2010 @ 11:18:37 AM
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Carl Pavano hit Paul Konerko in the face during the 1st inning of last night's game. Obviously an accident and everyone felt bad he got hit. Also curious to see what his lip/nose looks like today. He stayed in the game and later on hit a homerun, which I think Pavano kind of just gave him as a peace offering. ANYWAY....our first batter in the next half inning (coincidentally our 1st baseman) got plunked in the side/back area. He ended up scoring that inning in what was a very close ball game. Both sides were warned after that and things were fine until the 8th when our pitcher, with a guy on 1st, 2 outs, and 2 strikes in the at bat, hit the batter. Ozzie came out and yelled that our pitcher should be ejected. Instead, Ozzie almost got kicked out. Watching the game, you could see that the Twins unintentionally hit the batters. Pavano's one of the better pitchers right now, 17 wins and a 3.60 ERA, accidents happen. Not sure if anyone cares, just thought I'd see if Scott wanted to restart his HBP tirade. emoticon We should also get new emoticons.emoticon
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
09/17/2010 @ 12:28:49 PM
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I thought a hbp after a warning was supposed to be an automatic ejection. Well, at least it wasn't the very next pitch after a warning.
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newalex.jpgAlex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated
09/17/2010 @ 01:10:05 PM
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Je-ter chea-ter, Je-ter chea-ter
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thumbnailCAW1I0O3.gifMatt - 3354 Posts
09/20/2010 @ 12:06:16 PM
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100919&content_id=14847072&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
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newalex.jpgAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
09/20/2010 @ 01:07:35 PM
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Extra "mlb" in your link

Not to blame the victim too much, but I really have no idea what he was looking at. He never really turned that far to watch the ball and it seems like there was at least a chance that the bat fragment was in his line of sight at first. Just weird.
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
09/20/2010 @ 01:25:35 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 01:07:35 PM
Extra "mlb" in your link


You'll have to take that up with Major League Baseball. All I did was copy the address of the page.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/20/2010 @ 01:53:51 PM
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Alex Wrote - Today @ 01:07:35 PM
Extra "mlb" in your link

Not to blame the victim too much, but I really have no idea what he was looking at. He never really turned that far to watch the ball and it seems like there was at least a chance that the bat fragment was in his line of sight at first. Just weird.


It was less than 3 seconds in the slow motion replay, which means it was probably about 1.5 seconds or less from the time the back broke to the time it hit Colvin. I don't think it would have mattered if someone told him ahead of time that a bat was going to break in his direction, let alone have to react when for the first .5 second he watched the ball, and for the next .5 seconds, was turning back towards the plate. That leaves him about .5 seconds before he realizes a shiv is coming towards him.
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sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
09/21/2010 @ 07:53:53 PM
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1174607/index.htm

Need to get me one of these in paper form!
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
09/21/2010 @ 09:36:48 PM
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I love it when I'm so on target.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/22/2010 @ 07:59:16 PM
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It seems like about a week ago that the twins were a couple games back of the White Sox. Why did they start tearing it up once Morneau went down? If the two weren't in conjunction, at least they continued burning it up without him.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
09/23/2010 @ 05:50:21 AM
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It happened last year as well. Last year made no sense, this year the answer is probably because Thome got to play way more often. (Though it's hardly like they played poorly before Morneau got hurt.)
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
09/23/2010 @ 01:20:10 PM
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It also helped that the starting pitchers decided to be good again.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
09/23/2010 @ 02:07:59 PM
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Yeah. Though like I said, it really depends on how you define "tearing it up" They're the hottest team since the all star break, yes, but it's not like they were below average before then either. Their dispatching of the White Sox in particular has a lot to do with the fact that they actually beat the White Sox a ton, and though the lead was a healthy one, it happened this early because the White Sox just lost like 8 games in a row (3 to the Twins) They also improved after the mid point the last couple years because they made some good mid season moves, though in this case the biggest addition was already a Twin (Duensing)
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Jeremy messed with this at 09/23/2010 2:08:16 pm
jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
09/25/2010 @ 01:53:55 AM
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Actually, the reason is because they've adopted the Nutcan softball model which places an emphasis on the second half.
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
09/25/2010 @ 02:13:30 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - 09/23/2010 @ 05:50:21 AM
It happened last year as well. Last year made no sense, this year the answer is probably because Thome got to play way more often. (Though it's hardly like they played poorly before Morneau got hurt.)


I thought of this at first too, but, really Thome didn't do any better than Morneau was doing/would have done, so it more explains how the Twins were able to keep playing at a high level without Morneau rather than explaining why we did better without him. Which, again, isn't really much of a thing because we did quite well for a large part of the first half, but just happened to slump a little before the break.

The fact that Danny Valencia upgrades our 3rd base slot a pretty sizable chunk helped create some wins too.

Otherwise, it's just guys playing well at certain times for who knows what reason. Mauer's second half has been better than his first (when he hovered around an embarrassing .300 avg.) so that's always a boost to a team.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
09/25/2010 @ 06:49:32 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - 09/23/2010 @ 02:07:59 PM
Yeah. Though like I said, it really depends on how you define "tearing it up" They're the hottest team since the all star break, yes, but it's not like they were below average before then either. Their dispatching of the White Sox in particular has a lot to do with the fact that they actually beat the White Sox a ton, and though the lead was a healthy one, it happened this early because the White Sox just lost like 8 games in a row (3 to the Twins) They also improved after the mid point the last couple years because they made some good mid season moves, though in this case the biggest addition was already a Twin (Duensing)


Well, whether they tore it up by suddenly playing well or they tore it up by the White Sox sucking down the stretch, the Twins went from being down two games or so not that long ago to being the first team to clinch their division.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
09/29/2010 @ 05:40:32 PM
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I'd like to point out that I paid attention for about 3 days total in the fantasy baseball league, and I crawled up from dead last to fifth since the end of August.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
09/29/2010 @ 05:59:14 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 09/23/2010 @ 02:07:59 PM
Yeah. Though like I said, it really depends on how you define "tearing it up" They're the hottest team since the all star break, yes, but it's not like they were below average before then either.


I've meaning to respond to this for a while. The Twins were 4 games over .500 at the all-star game and 3.5 games out of first place. I wouldn't describe this as below average either, but they went from middle of the road to seemingly unstoppable force. In the 2nd half, they had winning streaks of 8, 6, 6, and 5; and until their recent losing streak, only lost consecutive games on 3 occasions, two losing streaks of 2 games, and one of 3 games. That's how I define "tearing it up". Between July 24th and September 22, they have a record of 40-14. In that stretch they were 26 games over .500. Considering that they are currently 27 games over .500, that streak pretty much accounts for their current standing.

This is a compliment to the Twins, by the way. I would imagine the same concepts that applies to football also applies to baseball, that being getting hot at the end sets up a good playoff run.
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Scott messed with this at 09/29/2010 6:00:10 pm
sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
09/29/2010 @ 07:45:33 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 05:59:14 PM

This is a compliment to the Twins, by the way. I would imagine the same concepts that applies to football also applies to baseball, that being getting hot at the end sets up a good playoff run.


So you're saying the Twins don't stand a chance?
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2887.gifAlex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel
09/29/2010 @ 09:56:34 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 05:59:14 PM
I would imagine the same concepts that applies to football also applies to baseball, that being getting hot at the end sets up a good playoff run.


Insider article, "Ten years of data show that when teams face off in the playoffs, September records actually have a negative correlation with winning the series."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=5608355
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Alex perfected this at 09/29/2010 9:57:05 pm
sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
09/29/2010 @ 10:22:26 PM
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Trevor Hoffman just got save #601, what's he been doing since September 7th?
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
09/30/2010 @ 11:03:07 AM
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Axford is still the regular closer.
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jon.jpgJon - 1 bajillion posts
10/02/2010 @ 02:33:00 AM
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"He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'..."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5636476
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/03/2010 @ 11:19:32 AM
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I smell blood in the water already. The Twins get what they paid for. If you build a stadium with a skyline, you have to deal with what that skyline becomes.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist
10/03/2010 @ 03:46:44 PM
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The beef isn'tso much that the skyline altered it's that a semi conscience effort to keep the plaza a public park like feel.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
10/03/2010 @ 07:02:18 PM
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Finally got a trophy is stupid fantasy league. Now I can quit.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/04/2010 @ 08:52:46 AM
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Ha, I kind of forgot that was over.
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
10/06/2010 @ 11:15:20 AM
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The Brewers might be close to signing Bob Brenly. He won a World Series, I guess.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
10/06/2010 @ 06:36:42 PM
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New thread? Postseason baby!!
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
10/06/2010 @ 08:50:55 PM
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Post season no-hitter! Unbelievable. And it was the Brewers TV announcer calling the game for TBS.
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sarah.jpgSarah - So's your face
10/06/2010 @ 08:58:44 PM
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That was unbelievable. Only got to watch the last couple of innings, but he was locked in. It was weird listening to the Brewers announcer, how'd he get the gig?
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
10/07/2010 @ 07:18:23 AM
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This is his third year doing TBS playoffs. He's just a good announcer.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
10/11/2010 @ 11:02:46 AM
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So, why can't the Twins win a playoff game?
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
10/11/2010 @ 11:13:38 AM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 12:02:46 PM
So, why can't the Twins win a playoff game?


Yankees : Twins :: Twins : White Sox
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/11/2010 @ 01:01:51 PM
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Well, in years past the Twins weren't as good, but someone had to win the central. This year they were good, they just stank horribly in those 3 games.

Plus that's what happens when you repeatedly draw a team that has a lineup in which the worst 3 players on it would be the best 3 on any other team, and ditto with their pitching.
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sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
10/11/2010 @ 06:14:18 PM
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Twins suck. Sports suck. That is all.
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newalex.jpgAlex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose
10/26/2010 @ 01:07:25 PM
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This might be the worst idea ever

Union would consider expanded playoffs
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5728656
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children.
10/26/2010 @ 01:46:06 PM
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I don't know about "worst idea ever" but I see no real need for it. They'd have to add a whole other round, even if it was just 1 more wildcard, essentially adding a wild card playoff round to see who plays the one seed, though that would then require the other teams to sit idle for another week.*

I'm also more or less ok with the playoffs being hard to get into, and by extension, rewarding the teams who played the best the rest of the time. (Cinderella teams are kind of exciting, but there's also something lame about a team that just happens to win the right games, after losing more than anyone else.)

More than 50% of the teams in the league making the playoffs is silly.

Maybe I'd feel different if I was rooting for a team that was never relevant late in the regular season, but I'm ok with it being more exclusive.

Making the 5 games a 7 gamer would be a decent idea, but I don't know that's a major area of concern either.

*Especially since any sort of system would likely involve a bye for the best 1 or 2 teams, which for the foreseeable future would mean you're now making it just that much easier for the AL East winner (often the Yankees) to go farther.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 10/26/2010 1:51:29 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/26/2010 @ 02:25:01 PM
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They would almost certainly have to shorten the regular season, which has already been thrown around as an idea as it is. I wouldn't mind having 6 teams make the playoffs from each league, or even just a 5th team. Historically, at least in the last 15 years, the team with the best regular season record isn't the team that wins the World Series. In fact, the Wild Card winner has won the World Series 4 times in the last 13 years, which is roughly 25% of the time. It would almost surely increase baseball TV ratings, but the reduction in regular season games would decrease individual team revenues, at least those that don't make the playoffs, by however many fewer games they have as a result.

They could go 3-5-7, which would sort of just be a natural next step. The 4 and 5 seeds play a three game series, and then then the winner plays 1, and 2 and 3 play each other. This way, the three division winners each get a few days of rest.
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Scott edited this at 10/26/2010 2:25:56 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/26/2010 @ 02:32:31 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 01:46:06 PM
Maybe I'd feel different if I was rooting for a team that was never relevant late in the regular season, but I'm ok with it being more exclusive.


And I might feel different if I was rooting for a team that was in contention year after year. It is true that baseball, while there has been a decent degree of parity among World Series winners in recent history, the difference between the haves and the have nots seems to be worse in baseball than it is in other sports. In other words, it's the same teams seemingly year after year that are good, and with very few exceptions, the one constant in all of that is payroll. Of course the Rays and Texas have to go and blow it this year and a few years ago, since they made the World Series with a Salary that I could pay for.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - As Seen On The Internet
10/26/2010 @ 02:48:36 PM
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Right, but the question is are you making it more fair to the "lesser" teams by letting more of them in, if including them gives the teams that are "always there" an even better chance (via rest/a bye)? The wild card being so successful right now is probably a mirage. Other than lacking home field, which is a debatable advantage in baseball at all, and only relevant if a series goes the distance, the wild card team is in the same boat as the other teams, and there's a good chance is on par or better than the 2 other division champs.

Say the MLB went to the NFL system. The Twins and Rays get a bye, the Rangers would host the White Sox and the Yankees would host the Red Sox.

The NL teams would be Philly, San Fran, and Cinci v St. Louis, Atlanta v San Diego.

I don't follow the NL a ton, but on the AL side those new teams are all still in the "usual suspects." The seeds would actually matter, and you could make a good case they should matter, which they kind of don't now, however, that would make it that much easier for the best two teams (or best team and second best division winner, who are probably up there) to make it.

I'm torn, because right now the Wildcard pays almost no penalty, which is reflected in their winning the WS at chance rate, but adding more teams would just make a better situation for the Yankees/Rays/Red Sox.

Long story short in an attempt to give more teams a shot you might be ensuring the same teams win it all even more than it seems like they do now.
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Jeremy messed with this 3 times, last at 10/26/2010 2:50:35 pm
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/26/2010 @ 03:33:59 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 02:48:36 PM
I'm torn, because right now the Wildcard pays almost no penalty, which is reflected in their winning the WS at chance rate, but adding more teams would just make a better situation for the Yankees/Rays/Red Sox.


I'll focus on this, because I'm not in much disagreement with most of what you said. If they did it, it would simply be a matter of logistics as to how best to implement it. But what I think the Wild Card-World Series champs ratio means is that there really isn't much difference between the top teams in each league. And, in some cases, the Wild Card is better record-wise than some of the division winners within the same league. I am certainly respecting of Division winners. They play each other the most (meaning, they play their own division more than they do non-division teams), so if the NL West champion finished with 85 wins one year, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are that much worse than a different division winner who had 95 wins. Maybe their division was more competitive. But, the Wild Card is like the equalizer. It takes the "our division champ is so freaking good every year we don't have a chance" and gives a secondary way for teams to make the playoffs. I would say that Wild Card teams are deserving, seeing that record wise they are almost always right up there with at least some of the division winners. And the fact that they win the World Series at a 25% rate seems to justify its existence.

But I get your big picture point. First place in the AL East means little when the Wild Card comes from the same division.

Edit: Also, I don't have time to do the research right now, but I'm pretty sure it isn't the case that the team with the best regular season record actually wins the World Series. So from that point of view, the "best" team isn't always the best team.
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Scott perfected this 2 times, last at 10/26/2010 3:42:20 pm
scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
10/26/2010 @ 03:46:28 PM
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All that being said, and in spite of the fact that it goes against the best interest of the team I root for, I am a bit of a baseball purist, and I too like the fact that the baseball playoffs is the most exclusive playoff system in the majors sports. If you make the playoffs, even in the current wild card format, you really have accomplished something significant. Clearly, the same cannot be said about basketball or hockey.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/26/2010 @ 03:47:36 PM
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But they win at 25% rate because the one WC team now is as good or better than the other teams. If that wildcard team now has to play a whole other round before facing the one seed, the one seed has that much bigger of an advantage. (Not to mention it would basically mean most of the AL East makes it every-time.)

The thing that needs to change is that the #1 seed and WC don't play each other if they are from the same division. It's a rule that seems to only exist so the AL East can stomp it's way through the playoffs even more than usual. (Or, more specifically, so the Yankees can face the Twins in round one every god damn year.)
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2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
10/26/2010 @ 10:42:53 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - Today @ 03:47:36 PM
(Or, more specifically, so the Yankees can face the Twins in round one every god damn year.)


Got to beat the best to be the best.

7 games in the first series would be ok I think. Mostly agree with the other points here. And I'll add that it could have a huge affect on the trade deadline. Teams that may be out the race normally ,and able to flip a vet for youth to build up, may be forced to keep their players or pick some one up and make a run. Not sure if that is good or bad, but there would be some changes there. And the bottom teams still get screwed with the regular season shortening. Also, the bye was mentioned already but I feel like adding that a bye would be the worst idea ever emoticon
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/27/2010 @ 10:23:31 AM
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Without byes you'd have to add 4 more wildcard teams (8 total) from each league, which means you're right in that same half-the-league-makes-it range of basketball and hockey.

Not to mention there's something fairly lame about there being more wildcard teams than division champs.

This season:

TB v Det/Oak (both .500, not sure what tie breaker would be), MN v Toronto, Texas v Chicago, and NYY v Bos

Phi vs Marlins/Dodgers (both 2 games below .500, ditto tie breaker), SF vs Col, Cin v StL, Atl v SD

Granted teams would try for longer, so the below .500 might not happen, but then again their opponents would be trying longer as well.

Seems way overkill. (Also, you'd have to add another 8 teams to get to the Brewers, just saying. emoticon)
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Jeremy perfected this at 10/27/2010 10:43:58 am
scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
10/27/2010 @ 10:39:30 AM
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Right, and I don't think I'd be 100% in favor of that option. I wouldn't stop watching but it would cheapen the playoffs a bit.
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sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
10/29/2010 @ 10:23:06 AM
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http://tinyurl.com/2dtowhg

A moment of silence for the Twins not picking up Punto's option and for picking up Kubel's.

Although Punto could come back at a lesser price.

First Dougie and now this.... oh Twins.emoticon
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/29/2010 @ 10:27:27 AM
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Yeah, and the Twins really got the short end of the stick on the Doug Mientkiewicz trade.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/29/2010 @ 10:34:42 AM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 10:27:27 AM
Yeah, and the Twins really got the short end of the stick on the Doug Mientkiewicz trade.


Right. Where would they be without perennial all star and cy young winner, Nationals AA minor leaguer Justin Jones?

emoticon

Edit: Bazinga
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Jeremy edited this 4 times, last at 10/29/2010 10:40:08 am
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
10/29/2010 @ 10:39:01 AM
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My guess is that it's one of these "it's not about the stats" fan/player connection.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
10/29/2010 @ 10:40:43 AM
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Yes, it is, but that's not what I was talking about.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
10/29/2010 @ 10:44:31 AM
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No, I think I got your joke, and I thought it was pretty clever (it also made me think I was wrong about who is included in the trade for doug). My comment about the trade was indirectly saying that Morneau for Doug was a pretty good trade. But without mentioning Justin by name, I left it open for whatever other unnamed/unknown player they threw in the mix just to call it a fair trade, and you ran with it. But before I saw your joke, I thought about my "it's not about the stats" comment, and posted it as a second comment after your comment was posted.
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Scott perfected this at 10/29/2010 10:45:38 am
sarah.jpgSarah - How do you use these things?
10/29/2010 @ 11:13:05 AM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 10:27:27 AM
Yeah, and the Twins really got the short end of the stick on the Doug Mientkiewicz trade.

Props on the spelling, but I don't think we really got anything for him. Yea yea I know about Morneau, but meh.

Edit: I was mid post and got distracted, hit send and then see 3 other comments ahead of me. Whatever, I'm keeping this post.
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Sarah edited this at 10/29/2010 11:14:10 am
scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
10/29/2010 @ 11:39:15 AM
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Sarah Wrote - Today @ 11:13:05 AM
Props on the spelling,


I googled "Justin Morneau", then clicked on his Wikipedia page, then searched for "Doug", found his whole name, highlighted it, and copied/pasted it on to NutCan. So in other words, thanks!
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sarah.jpgSarah - 4091 Posts
10/29/2010 @ 12:05:38 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 11:39:15 AM
Sarah Wrote - Today @ 11:13:05 AM
Props on the spelling,


I googled "Justin Morneau", then clicked on his Wikipedia page, then searched for "Doug", found his whole name, highlighted it, and copied/pasted it on to NutCan. So in other words, thanks!


I figured as much but at least you put some effort into it.
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
10/30/2010 @ 01:13:43 PM
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Scott Wrote - Yesterday @ 10:44:31 AM
No, I think I got your joke, and I thought it was pretty clever (it also made me think I was wrong about who is included in the trade for doug). My comment about the trade was indirectly saying that Morneau for Doug was a pretty good trade. But without mentioning Justin by name, I left it open for whatever other unnamed/unknown player they threw in the mix just to call it a fair trade, and you ran with it. But before I saw your joke, I thought about my "it's not about the stats" comment, and posted it as a second comment after your comment was posted.


I'm still not sure if the main point was established. To be clear, Doug Mientkiewicz was not literally traded for Morneau. They were both Twins. The Twins only got one player for Mientkiewicz and it was Justin Jones. Obviously, the 1st base situation worked out, and Morneau was basically the reason for the trade in the first place, but the literal trade was about as successful as if we just released Mientkiewicz.

http://jasonsbaseballblog.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/trade-retrospective-nomar-garciaparra/
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scott.jpgScott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on?
10/30/2010 @ 03:49:57 PM
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I made a mistake, apparently. I always thought it was doug for justin. But still, Doug was average offensively at best, and has been a journyman ever since leaving minnesota.
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
10/30/2010 @ 09:53:57 PM
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He no longer plays. Had some good times from the Metrodome's upper decks of the first baseline watching Dougie stretch and chew his bubblegum. Justin just doesn't hold a candle to him.
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scott.jpgScott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings
10/31/2010 @ 07:06:20 AM
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In what category? The "Lack of MVP and Homerun Power" category? Or the I look good stretching category?
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4091 Posts
10/31/2010 @ 12:13:03 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 07:06:20 AM
In what category? The "Lack of MVP and Homerun Power" category? Or the I look good stretching category?

Definitely the look good stretching category. And the defense category.
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
11/06/2010 @ 12:05:02 PM
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Not that I've seen many at all, but I feel confident in saying that Gregg Zaun has the greatest website of any player in MLB.

http://www.greggzaun.com/
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jon.jpgJon - 2847 Posts
11/06/2010 @ 07:48:16 PM
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Matt Wrote - Today @ 12:05:02 PM
Not that I've seen many at all, but I feel confident in saying that Gregg Zaun has the greatest website of any player in MLB.

http://www.greggzaun.com/


Greg Zaun seems to be an interesting guy. Back when he was a Marlin, he used to do movie reviews for ESPN's website way back in the early days of the site. So I thought that was cool. Then I was a bit disillusioned when he was named in the Mitchell report. Here's an article about his response to being named, from a couple years ago.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080215&content_id=2374202&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
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Jon edited this at 11/06/2010 7:49:03 pm
matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
11/17/2010 @ 02:04:10 PM
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Ron Gardenhire wins AL Manager of the Year. Bud Black takes the NL honor.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/108730694.html
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Matt messed with this at 11/17/2010 2:04:54 pm
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