02/03/2004 6:06 pm
We were one vote away in the last stage a bill can go to from it being legal to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin.
|Scott - 6225 Posts|
|Does that scare anyone besides me? I mean, I'm a gun owner, but the idea that someone might be carrying a pistol under their jacket is a little un-nerving.|
|Micah - I didn't make that! It fell out of your hair that way!|
|I was one vote away from being able to carry Han Solo's blaster way low on my sweet gun belt all the time|
|Matt - 3354 Posts|
|I hate to break it to you Scott, but there have been people carrying handguns under their jackets for a long time now.|
|Jeremy - I hate our freedoms|
|Yeah, but it's illegal to do so. The fact of the matter is if such a bill passed people would make it a point to carry them everywhere they could just because they can.|
|Matt - Nutcan.com's MBL|
I don't think most people would start carrying a gun. In fact I'm pretty sure it would be a small number of people. Yes, I know it's illegal now to carry a concealed weapon. Thats the point. The people who carry guns now are CRIMINALS. They don't care if it's legal or not, and if it does become legal, they're not going to get a permit anyway.
Under the bill, you would need to undergo training and a background check before applying for a permit. The only thing this law would have allowed was for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves.
There is an excellent article from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel archives that goes into more detail than I can here. I urge you to read it.
Concealed and Carried
|icbizzle - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel|
|i'm always packing heat.|
|Jeremy - 8953 Posts|
|Protect yourself from who? If someone tries to stick you up with a gun 99.999999% if the time they have no intention of actually shooting. You try and pull out a gun you freak them out and all bets are off. All it would do is get innocent people shot one way or another.|
|Jon - many posts|
|I'm personally more against conceal 'n carry than I am for it, but last I heard there are about forty five other states that have the law. I basically write that only to note that if that statistic is true, it's not like WI was trying to do something radically different than what's been going on all over.|
|Matt - 3354 Posts|
If a conceal and carry law is passed will there be an accidental shooting, and will someone try to stop a crime and make things worse? Yes, something like that will probably happen. On the other hand will there also be people who save themselves from being killed or raped, or stop a criminal from hurting someone else. The answer there would also be yes.
From the stats I've seen it seems to me that the people who are willing to go through the training and permit process are more law-abiding than the public in general, and aren't the shoot first, ask questions later that the anti gun crowds wants to make them out to be. Jon was correct in that 45 other states have a concealed carry law. In every one of those states the same opposition arguments, and predictions of uncontrollable crime have been argued. If they were true, wouldn't at least one of these states have repealed their law by now? In fact none of them have.
If the law were ever passed in the future, would I get a permit? No, at the present time and place I don't feel the need. I do, however want the 19-year-old girl who has to walk home alone at night, or the guy who drives a cab, or delivers pizza in a bad neighborhood to have the right to protect themselves if they want.
|Jeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i|
The fact that other states are doing it doesn't make it right. Guns kill nearly 40,000 Americans every year. Almost 18,000 of them are murders. Japan has 60 gun murders a year. Australia has 85 murders and less than 600 deaths a year.
It's hard to argue with statistics like that.
I know it's too late to do anything about the 2nd amendment. "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws would have guns" But there is a reason that police tell shop owners if you get held up and gun point just give them what they want. Pulling a gun is the worst thing you can do.
I know this is a bit off this specific topic but, selling and buying guns, especially hunting guns, is one thing. Selling cyanide tipped armor piercing bullets designed almost specifically for killing law enforcement officials is another. We dont need to form militias anymore. If it were up to the NRA wed all be allowed to have a nuclear missile silo in our backyard.
|Scott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.|
|Ok, Jeremy went a tad off topic, but I still agree with him. Outlawing guns is one thing. that's not what is happening with not letting people carry concealed weapons, and I don't think anyone here will really argue that point. I could be wrong. There are those who feel that any form of gun control in the slightest amount is robbing America of it's freedoms. Again, from what I've read the writers on this page don't feel this way. I truly believe that guns serve their purpose. My family owns guns (rifles) for the sole purpose of hunting. My dad has taught me respect and responsibility of owning and handling guns since I have been old enough to be around them. Pistols are another story all together. The incidents that happen every year with kids playing with their parents guns and accidentally firing them are almost always involving pistols and guns intended for the purposes of defense. Ironic isn't it? Not to mention the times where the discharge of a weapon has the intentional purpose of harming someone. So in short, I agree with what Jeremy said (didn't see that coming did you =))|
|icbizzle - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret|
|Guns don't kill people, I kill people. Seriously though, I find it hard to believe the availability of guns has hardly anything to do with the number of murders in the US. If I wanted to kill someone, I wouldn't let not being able to get a gun stop me (not that any amount of anti-gun laws would actually keep people from getting guns). Comparing statistical data on gun murders between countries involves about 1000 aspects other than concealed weapon laws, making your point (which i don't even really know what it was anyway) meaningless. America is based on the people having lots of individual freedom. This inevitably leads to certain problems (ie more crime, more murders) than other countries that have much stricter laws and less freedom. The US is also diverse (much more so than most other countries) in many different ways (racial, ethnical, political, religous, economical) which tends to lead to conflict. As far as accidental shootings go, the people who own the gun or are family members or friends of the owners are usually the ones who get shot. So if you don't want to get shot, don't have a gun and don't hang out with people that have one. And if someone else does want a gun, that should be their decision. Should we outlaw rope because someone might use it to strangle people to death?|
|Jeremy - 8953 Posts|
|Obviously it's a cultural issue. Yes if people want to murder they can get a gun. The fact of the matter is there are situations that escolate to someone being killed that wouldn't end the same way if that person didn't have a gun on/near them.|
|icbizzle - 3618 Posts|
|The fact of the matter? Have you done research?|
|Matt - 3354 Posts|
|There are also situations where a person saves him/herself from being killed or hurt, that wouldn't end the same way if that person didn't have a gun. It goes both ways, there are pros and cons to every issue.|
|Micah - 584 Posts|
|If I was able to carry a gun I sure as hell wouldnt have a hard time getting my quarter back when the Police Trainer machine stole it. Mark one in the "Pro" column.|