Mexico

07/20/2007 10:27 am
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So, it seems like I always bring this topic up, but how lenient is the NFL when it comes to Michael Vick? How many "mistakes" has he made since being in the league, and how many times has the NFL quietly pushed everything under a huge, now quite lumpy, rug. He's been involved with the killing of dogs for over 6 years, but the NFL isn't going to suspend him while he goes through the whole legal process. How is that fair? They suspend other people for much less. He said he needs football while this whole thing goes down. He gets that privilege? Why? He's certainly not deserving. If the new commissioner is going to crack down on troublemakers, he can't make exceptions for the faces of the league.
avatar2345.jpgPackOne - Well you can get this lapdance here for free.
07/20/2007 @ 11:18:31 AM
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I don't condone any of this in any way. I even called the Falcons front office, and the Surrey? county DA's office when this first happened. However, everyone is allowed to have their day in court. He should take a voluntary leave of absence.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i
07/20/2007 @ 11:29:39 AM
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The NFL has this bizarre notion of basing decisions off of the outcome of the court system, and not the outcome of the court of public opinion. They make "exceptions" to this rule because certain players will get in trouble and part of their deal to come back to the NFL will include clauses where even the act of "getting in trouble" in the future is enough. They don't wait for the outcome of the DUI stop or the outcome of the trial after being arrested because the player has already agreed that from "this moment on" the act of getting stopped or getting arrested will be "actionable."
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flower .jpgPackOne - First I limp to the side like my leg was broken.
07/20/2007 @ 11:42:41 AM
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Has Vick agreed to any such clauses. If so link please.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8968 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 11:44:01 AM
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Not that I'm aware of, that's sort of my point.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 11:45:20 AM
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Ah gotcha - bizarre notion was sarcastic. Just had to check. I didn't think you would throw out the "court of public opinion" as a more viable option.
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flower .jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 01:08:31 PM
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For whats its worth, voice your opinion on Vick here.

https://community.hsus.org/campaign/US_2007_dogfighting_nfl2?source=gaba6w
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 01:12:17 PM
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I'd never send that unless he was proven guilty. Until he is proven guilty, he should be treated as innocent (this is my agreement with Jeremy's post).

You can already see another Duke Case going on here- regardless of the outcome, he's already guilty in the public eye. Just like Kobe. But thenagain Kobe did it, just like OJ did it.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - As Seen On The Internet
07/20/2007 @ 01:13:41 PM
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I always love things like that. Show whomever how outraged you are over whatever by taking 3 seconds to fill in your name and send this chain letter to some guy in charge!! Prove to them it is a big enough issue to lend 2 clicks and 10 seconds total of your time!
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Jeremy perfected this 2 times, last at 07/20/2007 1:15:34 pm
avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 01:14:28 PM
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I agree totally. For those with the opinion that he should be suspended now, there is your avenue. I personally called the DA in Virginia awhile back and simply stated my opposition to dog fighting in general. I felt that this was enough.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - A Vote for me is a Vote against Terrorism! ...or atleast just wasted.
07/20/2007 @ 01:17:50 PM
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I fought dog fighting by getting a kitty. Wish I got a sweet hound like Hooch!
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Super Chocolate Bear
07/20/2007 @ 01:21:31 PM
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l_381eb8e0c531dd5209210d31c4b92a0e.jpg
Hooch does not approve of dog fighting.
Hooch does approve of leg humping.

Edit: And finger biting.
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Jeremy edited this at 07/20/2007 1:26:35 pm
avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:12:37 PM
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Grr why wont my dog show up.
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PackOne messed with this 5 times, last at 07/20/2007 2:21:25 pm
flower .jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:22:51 PM
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Gary-1.jpg
Gary does not condone dog fighting.
Gary condones peanut butter bones.
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PackOne messed with this 3 times, last at 07/20/2007 2:28:50 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - I believe virtually everything I read.
07/20/2007 @ 02:23:30 PM
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Let's try and find some larger pictures to post.
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Jeremy perfected this at 07/20/2007 2:24:02 pm
avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:24:50 PM
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Give me a break I had to figure out how to do this. I thought I was quite clever for a guy who doesn't know crap.

EDIT: There you go - better I hope.
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PackOne messed with this at 07/20/2007 2:29:18 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:50:00 PM
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So if you want to see a picture of my cat, go to my myspace page, or tell me how to post her fat ass on here...
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vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:50:29 PM
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YOU BOYS LIKE MEXEEECO???
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 02:56:26 PM
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I just quoted Jeremy's post to find out how to present the http and then added mine. It was easier than I thought.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8968 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 03:02:45 PM
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That, or spend 6 seconds on google. emoticon
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Jeremy perfected this at 07/20/2007 3:03:07 pm
fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8968 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 03:07:55 PM
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l_a7abbae924086fbf0ac5287a5735513d.jpg
YOU BOYS LIKE MEXEEECO???
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Jeremy messed with this at 07/20/2007 3:08:08 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - You had me at "Hello"
07/20/2007 @ 03:47:33 PM
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There she is, it's Reese, the monster.

She has the uncanny ability to wake me up at 445 EVERY morning!

And yes she's chewing on the bag... rodent...
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Carlos44ec screwed with this at 07/20/2007 3:48:05 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 04:03:02 PM
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Reese does not condone dog fighting.
Reese condones plaque removing fish shaped chewtoys.
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scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
07/20/2007 @ 04:18:14 PM
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How many mistakes has Vick made? Seriously, other than a marijuana incident that turned out to be nothing, what has he done? And, we don't know that he's been involved with killing dogs, at least not in the legal sense. Kobe admitting to adultury, just not rape.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8968 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 04:24:26 PM
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Sorry Scott, only points accompanied with photos of the family pet will be considered relevant.
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Jeremy screwed with this at 07/20/2007 4:24:43 pm
hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
07/20/2007 @ 04:43:34 PM
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Ron Mexico, anyone? I mean how was that not bigger news? That has to be some sort of crime...
Besides, even if he's not guilty of what's he's charged with, he's still guilty personally of killing those dogs. It was on his property. The whole thing is horrific. The stuff that is coming out though, it just seems like he knew about it. And yea yea yea, I know about the whole court system. But he just doesn't seem very trustworthy.
There are articles on ESPN that are wondering if he's going to take a paid leave of absence this year to get this whole indictment thing straightened out. I wonder what will happen.
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flower .jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 04:45:09 PM
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Thats funny ... I was just about to post the following.

Guilty or not, even knowing about it and not finding it horrific is just as bad.

EDIT: To illustrate just how far this issue is going to go, I just read that the NFL will be advising stadiums to refrain from playing "Who let the dog's out" while playing the Falcons.
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PackOne edited this at 07/20/2007 4:50:32 pm
vignette.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 04:58:34 PM
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Killing someone:
On Purpose- Murder
On accident- homicide
Knowing about it yet doing nothing- accessory to murder

Is that right? They're all incredibly serious, yet have varying degrees. I just need someone to confirm (haven't followed it myself) that even though it happened on his property- did he know about it? And this guy that says he was there- is he a reliable witness? Guess I should follow more closely...

its a bad thing happening, but there are definitely worse things going on.
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Carlos44ec messed with this at 07/20/2007 4:59:03 pm
hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
07/20/2007 @ 05:11:48 PM
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I have a problem with animal cruelty (which I'm sure most people do). What they were doing there was despicable. They'd kill dogs if they didn't want to fight, they'd kill them if they lost. And it was slow, and painful, and inhumane. Oh yea, and they had dog fights. Clinton Portis actually made jokes about dog fighting when he was asked about it. It's a popular thing apparently. It's cruel.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - What the F@#$ am I being arrested fo?
07/20/2007 @ 05:31:54 PM
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I know THAT part, but what are the accusations against Vick, and what are the facts of his involvement? That is the part that keeps escaping me.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
07/20/2007 @ 09:55:09 PM
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PETA tells NFL to "Sack Vick". My favorite line from this article: "Ramsey said her organization wrote to the NFL in May, offering to work with the league to help educate players about dogfighting." I mean really, how much education does a person need about dogfighting.

Wait though, killing a dog and killing a human don't exactly fall under the same legal terms, do they? Also, I think murder and homicide are the same thing. Killing someone on accident (say, in a car accident) isn't a homicide.

There are worse things going on, for sure. I haven't done a single thing to help free Tibet all summer.

Does having a problem with animal cruelty fall under religious or non-religious views? Because if my problem with it stems from my faith, then as I understand it, it is ok. Just curious. (mostly kidding, but it is interesting irony).

Can we get Waylon Meyer to voice his opinion on this issue. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say.

Oh, I've got a good punchline. This is just part of the Michael Vick Experience ride advertised in the commericals.

I'm done.
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
07/20/2007 @ 11:53:19 PM
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Its this

on purpose - murder/homicide
by accident - manslaughter

otherwise correct.

dog fighting sucks...unless its my dog...

IMG_0094.JPG?imgmax=512
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
07/21/2007 @ 08:19:51 AM
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manslaughter is for killing someone on accident while doing something illegal or stupid, like a bar fight, or driving drunk. If you were to fall out of a tree and kill the person you landed on, you would not be guilty of anything.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - www.digi.com
07/21/2007 @ 08:54:36 AM
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Not guilty, but a candidate for the Darwin awards
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/21/2007 @ 10:35:21 AM
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Micah Wrote - 07/20/2007 @ 11:53:19 PM
Its this

on purpose - murder/homicide
by accident - manslaughter

otherwise correct.

dog fighting sucks...unless its my dog...

IMG_0094.JPG?imgmax=512

Thats really funny and not funny all at once.
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matt.jpgMatt - Nutcan.com's MBL
07/21/2007 @ 11:57:00 AM
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Carlos44ec Wrote - 07/20/2007 @ 04:58:34 PM
Killing someone:
On Purpose- Murder
On accident- homicide
Knowing about it yet doing nothing- accessory to murder

Micah Wrote - 07/20/2007 @ 11:53:19 PM
Its this

on purpose - murder/homicide
by accident - manslaughter

Scott Wrote - 07/21/2007 @ 08:19:51 AM
manslaughter is for killing someone on accident while doing something illegal or stupid, like a bar fight, or driving drunk. If you were to fall out of a tree and kill the person you landed on, you would not be guilty of anything.


As I understand it (with some help from Wikipedia):

Homicide is the killing of another human being. Whether justified or not, intentional or accidental, it all falls under the homicide umbrella. Murder and manslaughter are then both forms of homicide, but differ on intent, circumstances and legal culpability.

Murder being with intent to kill or cause serious harm, and no real justification for it.

Manslaughter can be "involuntary" ("accidental") where there is no intent, but through negligence or recklessness, a death occurs (like Scott's drunk driving example). It can also be "voluntary" where there is intent to kill or cause serious harm, but it is mitigated by circumstances and one's state of mind (being provoked and/or acting in the heat of the moment)

Of course, in different jurisdictions these may be different, but from the quick reading I did, I think they are good generalities.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - Yeah, and you don't stop, 'caus its 1-8-7 on a ...
07/21/2007 @ 02:56:24 PM
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Wikepedia list on the history of dog fighting. Let's not lose sight of the subject, let's not pass it over to analyze the topic of HUMAN homicide. I challenge the winner of this "definition of homicide" side thread, to donate at least one dollar to an animal rights group of their choice. I'll post a scan of my receipt next week.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - She's just a woman. Never again.
07/21/2007 @ 02:57:06 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_fighting
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reign_of_fire.jpgMicah - Shaken not stirred gets you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth
07/21/2007 @ 06:27:27 PM
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The stuff in there about stealing pets as "bait" is terrible.

But lest we forget to mention the brutal act of cock fighting, and the plight of Little Jerry Seinfeld. (I guess it was more the plight of Kramer)
Liljerry.jpg
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Micah screwed with this 2 times, last at 07/21/2007 6:30:46 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8968 Posts
07/22/2007 @ 12:29:23 AM
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I don't condone dog fighting, but animal rights groups are out of control in this country. I think I'd sooner donate a dollar to the Republican Party than to PETA.
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scott.jpgScott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
07/22/2007 @ 07:31:03 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - 07/22/2007 @ 12:29:23 AM
I don't condone dog fighting, but animal rights groups are out of control in this country. I think I'd sooner donate a dollar to the Republican Party than to PETA.


Word
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
07/22/2007 @ 08:35:15 AM
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PETA may be out of control sometimes, but maybe teaching NFL players about dog fighting wouldn't be such a bad idea. When this story first broke, I read/heard that some NFL players do participate in dog fighting. (i.e. Clinton Portis) About the whole donating thing, we could donate to the Humane Association or something.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children.
07/22/2007 @ 10:30:43 AM
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As sad as it may be, on the long list of people who could use some donations even the Humane Society has to be pretty far down. I don't know if it's a commentary on our country/culture/or the human psyche, but it seems very odd to me we put so much time, effort, and money into helping homeless animals, while simultaneously all but ignoring the problem of homeless people.

Now don't get me wrong, those "Oh we've had this dog for 13 years, but now we decided to move into an apartment where pets aren't allowed," people are despicable. Maybe part of why we do what we do stems from the fact that we view dogs as helpless where as a homeless person is just seen as "lazy" and "jobless" by many.

(Homelessness is just one of many things we could do more for, and was just the example here.)
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - We can do this easy, or we can do it real easy
07/22/2007 @ 01:30:59 PM
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At the company I used to work for, they gave each employee $300 to donate to 3 charities from a list of about 100. The year I was there, they had to put a cap on the donations to the humane society because they wanted people to give money to actual human charities.

I think there's a general apathy towards large charities because so much of the money is wasted on administrative costs, lobbying, etc. I'm not saying there aren't great charities out there, blah blah....but I know a lot of people who resent United Way for this.

Plus, puppies and kittens are way cuter than homeless guys.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
07/22/2007 @ 02:11:52 PM
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I actually was just going to photo copy last months vet and food bills for my three cats and dog. I think all of us that treat our pets as part of the family, have already made a priceless contribution.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
07/24/2007 @ 07:23:44 AM
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Vick has been ordered to stay away from Training Camp by Roger Goodell. Is that what we all wanted? I think so.
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jon.jpgJon - 1 bajillion posts
07/27/2007 @ 05:40:47 AM
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So, the case is a big deal and a serious thing and everything, but here's the part I find interesting.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but I seem to recall Vick growing his hair out near the beginning of his NFL career (I think between his first and second seasons) and stating that he wasn't going to cut it until he won a super bowl. I'm not sure if a statement/action like that can be chalked up to youthful ambition, a lack of perspective, overconfidence, positive thinking, or maybe some combination of those, but I have always been a little intrigued by that pledge. It strikes me as odd how people in general can be so sure of future titles or successes for certain athletes, even though someone like Dan Marino would be buried in his own hair if he ever took such a gamble. There's probably a life lesson in there, but I digress. Short story long, Michael Vick got a haircut. In what was almost certainly an image-conscious move, Vick showed up for court without his cornrows, but with a much better looking, shorter hair style.

I'm actually not sure if he was even keeping up with the hair growing, but I know it has been in cornrows for all these years and seemed to be pretty long recently. Whatever the case, I thought I'd bring it up since coverage of his hair has been seriously neglected in the mainstream media reports that I have seen.

As a side note, I don't know why everyone is so surprised that Vick is in this trouble. Doesn't everyone know that getting indicted on dogfighting charges happens exactly four years after you're on the cover of Madden? That's part of the curse. Wake up.
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Jon screwed with this at 07/27/2007 5:46:53 am
face.bmpCarlos44ec - www.digi.com
07/27/2007 @ 08:23:07 AM
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Does anyone remember Jim Carey (thought not). When he first started, before In Living Color, he wrote himself a check for $1 million, in hopes his career would allow him to cash it. Turns out he was eventually. Similar to what Jon mentioned.

I think it's great to have goals, but sometimes people get cocky.

Also, it's important to say that I've hated everything Jim Carey has done outside of In Living Color.
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wendy.gifWendy
07/27/2007 @ 10:19:17 AM
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BustedTees.com has a new shirt out called "All of Michael Vick's Dogz go to Heaven"

http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/badnewzkennels/male/?utm_medium=EMail&utm_source=072607&utm_campaign=Badnewz
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - How do you use these things?
08/04/2009 @ 04:50:20 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4376513

I doubt this means anything, but if it does and the Packers pick up Vick, I will never root for them again. EVER!
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - "If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style."
08/04/2009 @ 08:13:22 PM
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Sarah Wrote - Today @ 04:50:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4376513 I doubt this means anything, but if it does and the Packers pick up Vick, I will never root for them again. EVER!


word
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
08/04/2009 @ 08:20:53 PM
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Interesting place to draw the line, considering other things that actual Packers have done off the field.
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question_mark.gifSarah (Guest)
08/04/2009 @ 10:54:14 PM
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I know that other packers have done bad things. But to kill dogs for sport is something I canlt deal with. Plus it's not like this is his first offense @ being a horrible human being.
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scott.jpgScott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone!
08/05/2009 @ 08:08:52 AM
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The man has done his time. Should he have been put to death instead? I will say that whatever team signs him will also be signing on a giant media circus like nothing that team has ever seen.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - Robots don't say 'ye'
08/05/2009 @ 09:57:52 AM
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The Simpson's writers talked on a commentary about how Homer had been abusing Bart at the drop of a hat for like 8 or so years (at the time), and they never got much flak for it, but there was one episode where Homer did the "Why you little! [strangle]" to Santa's Little Helper (the dog) and they practically got death threats. Even though some things are objectively worse, people just love their dogs.
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Jeremy messed with this at 08/05/2009 10:34:28 am
face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
08/05/2009 @ 02:08:05 PM
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I'd prefer a player to flirt with teenage girls in a hot tub or for a star QB to be addicted to painkillers. That compares directly to the dog thing?
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
08/05/2009 @ 02:09:42 PM
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Scott Wrote - Today @ 08:08:52 AM
The man has done his time. Should he have been put to death instead? I will say that whatever team signs him will also be signing on a giant media circus like nothing that team has ever seen.


Tried, convicted, punished, served. Done. Get's to go back to living life, hopefully.

This "Once a _____ always a _______" stuff needs to stop.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
08/05/2009 @ 06:19:14 PM
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Carlos44ec Wrote - Today @ 03:09:42 PM
Scott Wrote - Today @ 09:08:52 AM
The man has done his time. Should he have been put to death instead? I will say that whatever team signs him will also be signing on a giant media circus like nothing that team has ever seen.
Tried, convicted, punished, served. Done. Get's to go back to living life, hopefully. This "Once a _____ always a _______" stuff needs to stop.


I hope this was intended to say "I agree with you". Because that what I meant by "done his time."
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hoochpage.JPGSarah - 4107 Posts
08/05/2009 @ 07:28:08 PM
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Carlos44ec Wrote - Yesterday @ 08:13:22 PM
Sarah Wrote - Yesterday @ 04:50:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4376513 I doubt this means anything, but if it does and the Packers pick up Vick, I will never root for them again. EVER!


word
Carlos44ec Wrote - Today @ 02:09:42 PM
Scott Wrote - Today @ 08:08:52 AM
The man has done his time. Should he have been put to death instead? I will say that whatever team signs him will also be signing on a giant media circus like nothing that team has ever seen.


Tried, convicted, punished, served. Done. Get's to go back to living life, hopefully.

This "Once a _____ always a _______" stuff needs to stop.


Uhhhh what? Make up yo' mind!
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jon.jpgJon - 1 bajillion posts
08/06/2009 @ 04:27:57 AM
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Alex Wrote - 08/04/2009 @ 08:20:53 PM
Interesting place to draw the line, considering other things that actual Packers have done off the field.


You know what's funny? Or at least something? Lately some of our little pictures/icons haven't been loading next to the names in our comments header and when I first read this comment, it only had a blank white box by it. And I sat for about a minute trying to figure out how "Alex" posted something on this topic in the middle of our softball game. I was really confused and then I realized it was Alex Alex, not PackOne Alex. I hadn't confused the two of them since the days when the football picks page had them both with Packer logos only. It's kind of interesting how I seem to depend on those little pictures.

On a related note, Matt reminded me yesterday that I had PackOne's phone number on our roster sheet and so I added it into my phone under "PackOne." And I don't even have an Alex in there already.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - 2078 Posts
08/06/2009 @ 08:00:19 AM
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1st, agreeing with Scott.
2nd, I might have meant to type "word?" as in a sarcastic response, since I think you gave up on the Pack last year.
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reign_of_fire_150.jpgMicah - 584 Posts
08/06/2009 @ 09:14:36 AM
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I don't think it has ever been revealed here that PackOne's real name is Alex. If he was some sort of secret agent patrolling this website for terrorists, you totally just blew his cover.
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scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
08/06/2009 @ 09:23:50 AM
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Micah Wrote - Today @ 10:14:36 AM
I don't think it has ever been revealed here that PackOne's real name is Alex. If he was some sort of secret agent patrolling this website for terrorists, you totally just blew his cover.


I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know PackOne's real name. I actually half thought that PackOne was in fact a golden retriever.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!?
08/06/2009 @ 10:13:57 AM
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Actually it was "revealed" pretty much right away. Back when Packone first started coming here he and Alex argued about pretty much everything for pretty much no reason, and we used joke about the battle of the Alex's.

I can't find any threads though. You know when you do that thing where for whatever reason you start writing/seeing a word over and over and like the 50th time you start thinking about it and all of a sudden it doesn't look right anymore? I just kind of had that happen. A-l-e-x struck me as a very strange name, for some reason.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - The pig says "My wife is a slut?"
08/06/2009 @ 10:29:09 AM
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The Official New Member Introduction Thread
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - What the F@#$ am I being arrested fo?
08/06/2009 @ 12:40:33 PM
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I forgot that I had two original roles in PCW. Drums and then the dumb guy.
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