Jeremy the Misogynist

01/28/2004
On 7/30/02 Lisa Leslie made history by becoming the first WNBA player to dunk in a game. '02 was the fourth year the WNBA existed.
Spud Webb was a dunking phenom. He is 10 inches shorter than Lisa.
In 1996 Brown University suspended Adam Lack, who had to drop out after the suspension because he was harassed and even spit on. What happened? He hooked up with a girl at a party. She initiated the contact. She followed him back to his room. They had consensual sex. She spent the entire night. They even exchanged phone numbers in the morning. Three weeks later she decided that since she had been drinking that night she was going to withdraw her consent.
Judge Mablean Ephriam is a spousal support handing out machine.
I hesitate to write this article for a few reasons. For one, for whatever reason, we go a really long time between articles and yet whenever Jon happens to write one it seems to spend roughly half a day as the "headline" article. Another reason I hesitate is because as a male it's hard to write about this topic because, like a white person can't have a discussion about race without the thought of them being a racist creeping in, a male can't discuss women's issues without looking like they are just trying to perpetuate the "strangle hold" that men have on the world.

However I had my first class of Woman's Studies 301 on the 26th and since I got the impression that a part of the focus is to change our views on certain issues I thought it would be a fun experiment to see if my views on certain issues change.

I think one of the things that bugs me the most about the women's rights movement is the "have their cake and eat it too" factor.

Either you are considered an equal in the relationship or the guy pays and opens doors and whatnot. You can't have both equality and chivalry.

You can't demand sexual equality and still give women the right to claim rape after the fact because they had been drinking, and therefore were not in a state of mind to make a sound decision, and therefore must have been taken advantage of. The males in that situation were almost always also drinking and aren't givin that same "out clause."

Speaking of rape one of the first examples my teacher gave of injustices to women was a perfect example of this. She told us that back in the 50's female students in Madison had to be in their dorm rooms at 10 p.m. and couldn't leave or they were ticketed. She then said, "Any female caught out on the street at night was a target [for the tickets]....much like they are today. [for rape and other crimes]. Well you can't have it both ways. I think it's ridiculous that an adult woman not be allowed to come and go as she please, but you can't complain about a rule intended to protect females from harm and then imply that woman aren't being protected enough with out it.

Women want financial equality in relationships yet a woman who is the sole provider in a relationship is "taking care of a deadbeat" while a male being the sole provider is talking care of the couple or the family. Likewise the idea of spousal support has got to go. I understand its original intent. For example: Two people coming out of high school decide that they will get married and that the male will go to school and get the better job while the female will stay home and take care of house. Now they get divorced 7 years down the road. It IS indeed unfair to stick the woman with no job because she has no education and since, in essence, it's a breach of contract she deserves some compensation.

However the law is almost never used for that purpose anymore. Often times the females have a job and often a job that is almost as good. Why then should the male have to pay because without his added income she can't live "the life she's become accustomed to" with out it. Other times the couples get married later in adulthood and only stay married a couple years. If this is the case the female doesn't have enough time to get "accustomed" to anything. She also is a fully able bodied human being and should have to get a job herself. Unless the guy cheats on her she presumably was part of the reason the couple got divorced. Why is she rewarded and the guy punished?

Switching gears out of the "have their cake and eat it too" section but keeping with the "laws that have a purpose but suck in practice" theme I have to say that I think Affirmative Action sucks. If you live in a community that is 50% female and 50% black and a company in the area has 200 employees and they are all white males is there a problem there? Yes. However you don't combat the fact that people illegally look at race or sex when they hire by forcing them to hire a certain number of people based only on their race or sex. That makes no sense at all. Of course having a quota system is illegal but affirmative action gets around that by saying companies still need to maintain a "critical mass" of females and minorities depending of the percentages in the surrounding populations. At some point defining a "critical mass" has to involve a number. How is that different than a quota?

In the CS major there are way fewer women than men. I'm not really sure why. In my class I would say there are about 40 people in a class and roughly 4-5 of them are female in any given semester. All totaled there have been about 6 different girls in various classes. Every one of them had no problem finding an internship and all but one of them has been offered at least one job. The rest of us are left to fight for the few remaining jobs. Of course the girls in our class are smart, hardworking, nice, fully qualified people. I mean no disrespect to them as people and don't mean to imply I don't think they deserve the jobs. I just think it's more than a coincidence that almost every one of them has a job lined up and almost none of the rest of us do.

The final beef that I will discuss about the women's right movement is women's sports. I've already discussed on Page 3 how I feel about Title IX so I wont rehash that but I'll just say this. Feminist groups, if you are going to fight tooth and nail so that there is a professional girls league for every boys league or the equivalent girls team at any level then make sure there is public support for it. The woman's soccer is just this side of calling it quits and the WNBA draws very few fans almost all of which are male. So where are all these females to support the leagues/teams they fight so hard to get? Should colleges and high schools have a girls basketball team when they have a boys? Yes. Softball for baseball? Sure. Boys and Girls Hockey? No. Should girls be allowed to play on the one hockey team? Of course. Boys and Girls golf? I don't think either should exist.

Just admit the fact that, in general, no one wants to watch female versions of sports. Not even other females. Also can we end this silly argument about women and men being equal at sports? Men are CLEARLY superior. Just get over it already. Ok sorry, I had to get that in somehow.

- Jeremy Lindgren wonders if he's going to be able to find a job.

Read the follow up
scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
01/28/2004 @ 02:56:44 PM
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In all my years of playing hockey, I have not met/played with/played against a girl who could compete with the guys at any level above 8th grade. They can play on the one team (as was the case a couple times in my high school), but they cannot compete. Mya Hamm admitted that she would not stand a chance playing in the guys league. Golf on the other hand is different. When I was on the Varsity Golf team in high school I played against girls numerous times that were just as good as me. Heck, Annika Sorenstam and Michelle Wie (14 friggen years old!!!!) have competed with the guys on the professional level. So that theory works sometimes and doesn't work other times. But I do know this. During the Women's Movement in the 1960's or 1970's, The University of Wisconsin - Madison lost baseball thanks to title 9. Not because Madison did not offer enough sports for women, but because not enough women went out of the sports that Madison offered. So Men's sports suffered because of the lack of female interest in their own sport. Title 9 is questionable and probably not needed anymore.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - I hate our freedoms
01/28/2004 @ 04:47:39 PM
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UWEC lost baseball for basically the same reason.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
01/28/2004 @ 04:49:33 PM
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Also my point isn't that I think women could actually make the hockey team, just that they should be allowed to try. I don't think an organization should have to spend money on women's underwater basket weaving because they want to have another guys sport.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
01/28/2004 @ 05:00:59 PM
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Girls did play on the "boys" high school hockey team at my HS, and it didn't really work. My sister was one of the best girl hockey players in my town and she could do very little on the JV team. But yeah, for other sports I understand.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!?
01/28/2004 @ 05:14:54 PM
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Again I know most girls wouldn't have a realisitic shot at making the hockey team, most guys don't. I just don't want to see hockey programs or any other programs go under because places are forced to make a girls hockey team for the 3 girls that want to play. If there are 40 girls that want to be on a hockey team and their freinds and family pledge their support to show up on gamedays then by all means make a girls hockey team. Just don't get rid of baseball because girls lacrosse doesn't have enough support.

I don't care if there are 500 girls programs and 7 guys, if girls are showing up and fans are showing up then great. However, boys programs should NOT be cut because it would mean having to also have some girls program.
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2887.gificbizzle - 3618 Posts
01/28/2004 @ 10:39:51 PM
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title ix's intent was good (i think), but it obviously needs to be refined some. i don't think anyone can seriously deny that. why shouldn't golf teams exist? the wnba isn't that bad. when it started i don't think the talent pool was very deep, but now after a couple of years it's starting to get better. not that i watch it much, but i have nothing against it either. michelle wie is the schizzle.
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matt.jpgMatt - 3354 Posts
01/28/2004 @ 11:00:24 PM
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I think that the title really makes this article good.
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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
07/10/2004 @ 01:52:54 AM
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Aww crap....

Look at this

I don't think my views in this article or the followup are even close to the same thing as this guy's views.
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2887.gificbizzle - 3618 Posts
07/10/2004 @ 10:28:31 AM
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Dave Sim "In one of those Poor Us studies for which the Emotional Female Void is notorious, it was pointed out that after a divorce, the average male standard of living rises... the average female standard of living drops... I think the...explanation is that the excision of a five-to-six- foot leech from the surface of a human body is going to have more of its own blood in its own veins. Unless the leech finds another body, it is going to go hungry."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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question_mark.gifWomen Make Me Mad (Guest)
12/04/2005 @ 12:55:10 AM
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I have never met a woman who didn't turn out to be a self centered, manipulative power monger.  Ive been burned so many times by women, that I don't even consider it unusual anymore.  They are completely unreliable both at work and in relationships.  If you work with a woman and it involves any kind of physical labor, you will end up doing the lion's share.  If you work with a women involving things of a creative or mental nature, you will end up spent and worn out from mind mind numbing annoyance that is caused by their indecisiveness or reluctance to comit, not to mention all the mental anguish you will suffer if two women work together in the work place, or heaven forbid if a woman works under another woman.  GOD HELP US ALL!!  We will never hear the end of it. 


Women in relationships are just as bad, they are completely unreliable, emotionally unstable creatures that try your patience with their drama.  They cant figure out who they are or what they want to be.  They can't decide if they want to be treated equally or cared for like a princess.  Actually they want both.  They want to be treated special and be cared for, but also want to give you an earful from time to time. They want to be bossy, rude and picky, just because they can.  Its a womans perogative to change her mind, and a mans curse to bear the brunt of their insanity.   I dislike women with a passion, I find them borish, un useful,  unimaginative, crass and crude.   I can honestly say that if it wasn't for sex, I would have no need of women whatsoever.

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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!?
12/04/2005 @ 08:22:45 PM
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"....not to mention all the mental anguish you will suffer if two women work together in the work place, or heaven forbid if a woman works under another woman.  GOD HELP US ALL!!  We will never hear the end of it. "


Classic! But again I really don't hate women.

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fry6beeu9.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
05/19/2008 @ 01:37:56 PM
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icbizzle Wrote - 01/28/2004 @ 10:39:51 PM
why shouldn't golf teams exist?


I never answered this. I guess it's because for one, just purely practical reasons, it's an expensive sport that very few people are even interested in that brings little to no money back in. Secondly, in terms of public funding of an eventual public good, there are a lot of life lessons to be learned in other sports regarding teamwork and whatnot that Golf misses out on.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - Knuckle Sammich
05/19/2008 @ 01:39:58 PM
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Our office does an annual golf tourney, it's a team based deal that plays best-ball. That's some fun golfing! My team won last year btw...
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
05/19/2008 @ 09:42:21 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 05/19/2008 @ 01:37:56 PM
icbizzle Wrote - 01/28/2004 @ 10:39:51 PM
why shouldn't golf teams exist?
I never answered this. I guess it's because for one, just purely practical reasons, it's an expensive sport that very few people are even interested in that brings little to no money back in. Secondly, in terms of public funding of an eventual public good, there are a lot of life lessons to be learned in other sports regarding teamwork and whatnot that Golf misses out on.


Is it really that expensive? I have really have no idea of the costs but just guessing you can probably get a membership at a course for like $600 and besides that there's maybe some sort of driving range deal that they swing with some place and what else? Do they supply clubs and balls and such? Seems like it could be a lot cheaper than a lot of other sports.
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newalex.jpgAlex - 3618 Posts
05/19/2008 @ 09:45:04 PM
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Carlos44ec Wrote - 05/19/2008 @ 01:39:58 PM
Our office does an annual golf tourney, it's a team based deal that plays best-ball. That's some fun golfing! My team won last year btw...


A couple years ago I accidently won longest drive by hitting the ball 30 degrees farther left than I planned to on a dogleg left and I won closest to the pin on a high line drive of a 9 iron shank. My team has never been close to winning though.
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jon.jpgJon - 1 bajillion posts
05/20/2008 @ 06:28:39 AM
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IF I had to guess, (Or estimate, hey why don't I call it guesstimate? Did you see what I did there? I made up a word!), I would say that golf isn't that expensive for schools to put on. The kids supply their own equipment so it's mostly just fees at the courses.
As far as money brought in, I doubt it brings much directly, although some of the golf parents are probably among the richer and are likely to add a little to the old booster funding, but that's just a guess.
They do play an individual/team format however, which can still teach life lessons. Tennis is the same kind of thing, as is wrestling and swimming and probably something else. Track & Field, Cross country, gymnastics, so pretty much all sports except football, basketball, baseball/softball and hockey.
Anyway, unless it's completely breaking the bank, which I doubt it is, I don't see any problem with golf. Except that it's boring.
Plus, Scott played it so I'm sure he'll come with a passionate defense any minute now.
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Jon perfected this at 05/20/2008 6:29:03 am
scott.jpgScott - On your mark...get set...Terrible!
05/21/2008 @ 12:16:54 PM
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Jeremy Wrote - 05/19/2008 @ 01:37:56 PM
icbizzle Wrote - 01/28/2004 @ 10:39:51 PM
why shouldn't golf teams exist?
I never answered this. I guess it's because for one, just purely practical reasons, it's an expensive sport that very few people are even interested in that brings little to no money back in. Secondly, in terms of public funding of an eventual public good, there are a lot of life lessons to be learned in other sports regarding teamwork and whatnot that Golf misses out on.


From someone who has been a golfer since age 10 (3 year letter winner, captain of my high school team) and a hockey player since age 3 (stopped after high school), I can say that golf absoultely has life lessons that can match up to and actually surpass in importance those lessons learned in other sports.

1) In golf, you basically are your own official. You call your own penalty shots, you keep track of your own score (at least, you keep track of the number and you generally tell one of your playing partners who keeps the offical score card). You can tell a lot about the integrity of a person by golfing with them.
2) Golf is an individual sport, but your teammates are almost MORE dependent on you than in a team sport. In hockey, my teammates could pick me up if I miss a pass, or let my guy get by me. In golf, the weight of the entire teams seems to rest on your shoulder (the weight of the entire team seems to rest on everyone's shoulders in a sense). If I miss a short putt, or if I put a ball in the water, I am hurting my team and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
3) Golf takes as much patience as any sport there is. Like Chubs told Happy Gilmore, "you can't putt on raw emotion." In hockey, emotion and a little bit of rage can actually make you better. In golf, the tiniest bit of left over emotion from a bad hole can ruin the entire round. It tends to build if you don't control it right from the get go. The most imfamous round of my high school career was a conference match (I actually played with Joe Pavelski from Stevens Point, who now plays for the San Jose Sharks). In this match, I parred the first 4 holes (which is a decent feat for any high school golfer), sinking two pretty decent putts along the way. The 5th hole, I put a ball in the water and walked away with a 7 on a par 4, basically erasing any momentum I had from the first four holes. I never let it go the entire round and had one of the worst rounds of my high school days, all the while Mr. Perfect Pavelski was going on to win the conference tournament, shooting a 72 (par) that day.
4) I can't vouch for everyone I played with, but I bought my clubs with my own money. My dad bought me a starter set when I was 10, then I bought a hand-me down Wal-Mart set from my brother when I was about 13 or 14. The summer after my Freshman year of high school, my Dad told me if I wanted to get new clubs (which I really kind of needed if I wanted to be competitive in high school; "good" clubs actually do make a difference) that I needed to get a job. I got a job at Dairy Queen and before the summer was up bought a set of used Callaway irons in great shape.
5) I'm also not sure how much money it actually costs the schools. The school does not supply the clubs. We each got a bag, but only for the 6 people on varsity. And the cost of the course fees, while fairly high, can't be any worse than the cost of renting the ice rink. And really, other than basketball and football, what sports DO bring money back in through ticket sales?
6) I personally care just as many if not more life lessons from Golf than I from hockey.
7) I shot a Hole-in-one once, and there is no achievement in any of the sports I have ever played (except in winning tournament of some kind) that can stack up to the excitement of realizing what you've just done.

To elaborate on on point number 4, golf CAN be a fairly expensive sport. For those serious golfers, a new set of "game improvement irons" (meaning they are more forgiving on miss-hits) can cost anywhere from $500 to $1500, and the two woods that you need (driver and 3 wood) probably would run you around $500 to $800 total. I bought my irons used for somewhere between $300-$400, and it isn't hard to find very good used clubs in very good condition. Plus, if you buy irons that aren't from the current year they go way down in price and really there isn't a big difference in newer clubs vs older clubs as long as they are in good condition. When I was high school and earlier, the course I golfed at (actually one of the higher rated courses in Wisconsin for niceness and difficulty) was dirt cheap to play at. Under 18 I could get a membership for $85 for the entire summer. Calculate that out, and I would have it paid off in less than 4 18 hold rounds.

In summary, Jeremy's dead wrong on this one. Golf is definitely a worth while sport. I played hockey since I was three, but I haven't even so much as put skates more than about 2 times since I graduated high school. There are no limits to golf in that regard. It is a lifelong activity.
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face.bmpCarlos44ec - Since 1980!
05/21/2008 @ 12:21:55 PM
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thats a five nutter if I ever saw one. Kudos to you, Sir.
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jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
05/21/2008 @ 12:55:13 PM
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While, to be fair I never actually made any judgment on golf itself. The closest I came was mentioning that there's probably more value in the other sports in terms of working as a team and whatnot that make it worthwhile for the public to fund. Many team sports still have most, if not all of the, "It's all on me" moments that golf has, on top of the teamwork. (Free throw shots, plate appearences, only one person can have the puck/ball, ect.) Golf has "teams" like Super Mario Brothers is two player. It's still a one player game, you just let someone else have their turn. You aren't "working as a team," you're just totaling your scores. Having someone pick up your slack or learning to pick up other's when they falter is the MAIN lesson to learn from teamwork. The lesson "I don't want to mess up and hurt my team" is still there. The lesson "there's nothing I can do but stand here and watch this loser mess up" is also present in areas of many other sports, but I would hardly sell that as a "feature" of something.

I never said Golf had no life lessons to be learned, just other sports offer the same lessons and some others.

We have to draw the line somewhere on what the school, and in turn we all, pay for.

I doubt most sports pay for themselves, but drawing the fans in the first place is another reason to publicly fund it. (Sense of community and whatnot)


Late edit: Keep in mind I was also thinking in the context of schools on a tight budget (as in "we can't even afford paper anymore") and if looking at the sports football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and golf, I would axe golf first, if for no other reason than it involves so little of the school/community. It wasn't a call on some sort of "I don't think golf is a sport" principal, just on a "we can't fund everything 10 people want to get together and do" principal
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Jeremy edited this 5 times, last at 05/21/2008 2:07:49 pm
scott.jpgScott - Resident Tech Support
05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
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Do lessons in teamwork trump other types of lessons? I also disagree that other sports necessarily teach the same lessons as golf and then some (refer back to point #1 and a little bit about point #3). How about a sport that will give a kid something to do for the rest of his/her life. Like I said, I haven't played hockey since high school, but golf is something I can do whenever I want.

And there is a sense of community with golf. If you've ever been a member or an employee of any kind of golf course/country club, that is the epitome of community. Maybe you need to clarify what you mean by "sense of community", because there seems to be plenty of that tied in with golf, at least from my experience.

Also, my school had pretty high turnouts for people wanting to be on the golf team. As much or more as a few other sports.

Jeremy Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 12:55:13 PM
Golf has "teams" like Super Mario Brothers is two player. It's still a one player game, you just let someone else have their turn. You aren't "working as a team," you're just totaling your scores. Having someone pick up your slack or learning to pick up other's when they falter is the MAIN lesson to learn from teamwork.


So I'm an intravert, golf was the perfect sport for me. In my current job, while I work with a group of people, there is no "team" other than me asking for help every once in a while (I don't work on any projects, our boss scrutinzes (and scolds) us individually on a daily basis no matter how productive we are as a team (in case you haven't been able to gather from this last statement, I don't like my job and I'm searching for a new one)). So all those life lessons from team sports would have been wasted on me:)
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Scott edited this 3 times, last at 05/21/2008 4:19:17 pm
jeremy.jpgJeremy - 8953 Posts
05/21/2008 @ 04:31:31 PM
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Scott Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
I also disagree that other sports necessarily teach the same lessons as golf and then some (refer back to point #1 and a little bit about point #3).

You're telling me that in some sort of official tournament you're all off on your own to score yourself? No one is overseeing anything? I find that hard to believe.

Scott Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
Like I said, I haven't played hockey since high school, but golf is something I can do whenever I want.

Which is really all the lesser of a reason for the school to bother sponsoring it. It's much harder to get together a group of people and equipment for hockey or tackle football out from under the umbrella of some sort of larger organization. There aren't other alternatives that offer the same experience.

Scott Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
And there is a sense of community with golf. If you've ever been a member or an employee of any kind of golf course/country club, that is the epitome of community. Maybe you need to clarify what you mean by "sense of community", because there seems to be plenty of that tied in with golf, at least from my experience.


I literally meant a sense of community, as in the community at large, in respect to a reason why one could argue the public should be funding ANY sports. Football and Basketball in particular draw a large crowd.

Scott Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
Also, my school had pretty high turnouts for people wanting to be on the golf team. As much or more as a few other sports.


Well, I never said golf should be the first sport to go, it just happened to be the first thing I thought of in the original article. Obviously it could be done on a case by case basis anyway.
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scott.jpgScott - 6225 Posts
05/24/2008 @ 05:50:14 AM
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Jeremy Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:31:31 PM
Scott Wrote - 05/21/2008 @ 04:13:34 PM
I also disagree that other sports necessarily teach the same lessons as golf and then some (refer back to point #1 and a little bit about point #3).
You're telling me that in some sort of official tournament you're all off on your own to score yourself? No one is overseeing anything? I find that hard to believe.


You don't keep your own score persay. There are generally two ways that score is kept. 1 way is that each player exchanges his "official" score card with one of the other players. This way, player A tells his score to Player B, player B tells his score to Player C, and Player C tells his score to Player A. The other way is to have 1 official scorecard where Player A keeps scores for himself, and the other players. It is never the case where someone would be golfing alone and keeping his own score.

The other thing is that there are no "officials" on the course. Players are responsible for making sure that they are following the rules correctly (any player worth his salt carries around a USGA rule book) In fact, I play by the exact same rules as Tiger Woods and the rest of the PGA players. What other high school sport can boast something like that? (Of course, there are always some kind of "house rules" for special situation that arise at certain courses in special circumstances) Decisions about penalty strokes, out of bounds shots, water hazards, etc are made by the individual player with obvious interjection from his opponents. In fact, if there is a dispute in what should be done in a given situation, the player will play 2 balls from that position, keep track of both scores, and then explain to the course official the situation in order to make a decision on what score to write down.

My high school football team won 2 games TOTAL during my 4 years. Sense of community or not, that's embarrasing. And basically, everyone in my high school except for the people who actually played kind of had serious resentment towards the football program in general. The football program still probably benefitted the school financially, but it was always a sore debate when it came to funding something that was so pathetically unsuccessful when our girls swim team had a streak of 30 years of going to the state tournament and no one hardly knew about it. (that is a completely different debate altogether though. Do not feel obligated to respond to that last point)
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flower .jpgPackOne - 1528 Posts
05/24/2008 @ 08:07:45 AM
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Jeremy for once is right. I was a high school golf teamer as well. I also wrote a story about golf and the golf industry, in a sense. It is a community, although, I don't think that it is neccesarily a positive one for everybody. Every kid should go out and play golf with their father, or mother for that matter. One can learn life lessons on the course that you find nowhere else.


http://citizenwausau.com/tsfr/2008/02/29/melting-the-snowman-a-story-on-golf/
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PackOne screwed with this at 05/24/2008 8:09:13 am
2887.gifAlex - 3618 Posts
05/24/2008 @ 11:19:11 AM
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In response to that blog (I can repost there as well if you prefer) I think there's multiple ways to enjoy golf. We've done a few "team building" outings at work and in that case I'd rather have a few beers and just have fun with it. Then there's golfing with buddies which may or may not include beer but definitely there is way more competition. I'll occassionally play a round by myself too which is relaxing but also when I try to work on improving specific aspects of my game. And lastly there is playing with my father (who introduced me to the game) and/or brothers which is about just the bonding mainly but used to be about one of us trying to beat my dad although it's probably changed more into him trying to beat me now. Not that any of us are actually really any good. So sometimes the beer cart doesn't soon enough and sometimes I'm glad if I don't see it the whole round, but in all cases I agree that slow golfers are the bane of golfing.

As long as this is now the official golf thread, I bought new clubs last spring and probably didn't spend enough, but I actually like the irons. My problem is that my driver is weak, so I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on drivers somewhere in the more than Walmart special but less than an entire paycheck range.
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scott.jpgScott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue.
05/24/2008 @ 12:48:35 PM
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Find a used golf shop where ever it is that you live. Anything that still looks newish (it isn't hard to find really nice used clubs in various places) should be ok. I might suggest the Callaway steelhead Plus driver. It's from about 5 or 6 years ago, but it's still in my bag. You might be able to find it for around $200 to $250.
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avatar2345.jpgPackOne - That hypocrite smokes two packs a day.
05/24/2008 @ 07:47:11 PM
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Check out Ram Accubar driver. Very cheap and I still hit it better than with my buddies Callaway. Thanks for reading Alex.
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